LHD Cigar E46

[Freddy]

O'BRIEN ---I would have never sold you the CIGAR semen , unless it would have been good quality semen and as of now it hasn't proven to me that it is any good ...Used it in flushes and have to DNA some of the calves ...Used WYOMING WIND semen with it and his semen is great stuff .....One thing that worry's me about your cow is her sire who definitely not a calving ease bull ....It's impossible to know how big the calf will be , I think LT BLUEGRASS would be a very good choice with plenty of guts ,also would give you more idea how your cow works with different bulls .....

 

[Charguy]

Mark have you actually seen any progeny out of any of these bulls you are recomending? Look at the Performer bulls picture - if you like heavy fronted, short bodied, unattractive cattle then fine. There hasn't been a lot of Performer calves around - the Prefix bull was the main one. He is decent. That's about it. There is a package of semen on Performer in the Ab Select Sale in Dec (sale book on Charolais Banner website). Birmingham might be from a great breeder but I haven't been impressed with his calvess at all. They are all horned and are average at best.

I love Cigar - he works well on WWind daughters. Great proven bull. Expensive if you don't have semen though. Passport or Smokester is a good option. Bud Heavy looks ggood. A friend of mine has a CDN bull at Bovine Elite who worked well. Lots of hair though VFF Time Out. Young bull though not proven.

 

[Mark H]

Charguy,

I have seen some Performer calves on the ground not just in North America.  On a very long cow that lacks guts we works.  The Australians like to use Performer on cattle out of many North American domestic bulls for this very reason.  They are blending the advantages of full french with domestic breeding with out jacking birth weights through the roof. On the average Charolais cow that has plenty of guts, muscle, and performance  he isn't the best choice. 
I also don't mind horned cattle as I can get true outcross cattle much easier that way.  Discounting a bull because he is horned limits your choices on a global scale.  I try and think of how matings compliment each other.  The bulls I suggested were also tempered with the idea of keeping birth weights down hence the idea of using Birmingham. Birmingham calves aren't flashy but they do grow with a reasonable birth EPD. I particularly want to improve this cows growth EPDs.
If Cigar semen is scarce why not use his sire LHD Mr Perfect?  He doesn't have the EPDs of Cigar but he is a proven cow maker and has good customer acceptance.  He is also a decent calving bull.
The Circle Cee bull VFF Time Out is a nice looking bull with a great pedigree but again I want better projected EPDs on an unproven bull since his yearling weight EPD is only +76 with a birth EPD of +3.4.  He has great show record in Canada and he may prove to be great one but right now he needs clves on thee ground to show he is a performance improver.
Looking at the AB select sale I like the idea of KCM Prowler for calving ease-just too bad the semen offer is only Canadian approved.  Here is link to the catalog: http://issuu.com/pdrneepawa/docs/aca_catalogue_web?e=2717029/5293420
What other bulls would you use? Just asking your input is welcome.

 

[flyintale]

O'BRIEN ---I would have never sold you the CIGAR semen , unless it would have been good quality semen and as of now it hasn't proven to me that it is any good ...Used it in flushes and have to DNA some of the calves ...Used WYOMING WIND semen with it and his semen is great stuff .....One thing that worry's me about your cow is her sire who definitely not a calving ease bull ....It's impossible to know how big the calf will be , I think LT BLUEGRASS would be a very good choice with plenty of guts ,also would give you more idea how your cow works with different bulls .....

When you say CIGAR hasn't proven good to you, you're meaning he's not working on your cows, right?  I will add Bluegrass to the list of possibilities, I like what I see. It's also an added plus that I have a Genex guy right down the road ;D 

I'm shocked there's not been any Firewater suggestions. I feel like he's always coming up in char suggestions. I realize the calf would be linebred, but why or why not use him?  Or would it, yet again, be an absolute no due to bwt?  Wyoming Wind has been line bred time after time, why not line breed oahe wind?

 

[Bradenh]

Firewater isn't the most capacious Charolais bull is the reasoning. If the cow isn't pretty wide sprung he can potentially take the girth and rib out, not that he takes it but he won't add it

He has to be protected on capacity and neck. Other than that he's the ticket, who has experience with wrangler?! Ill be able to report in April on how he worked with <<<<<<<< profile pic

 

[Mark H]

After looking at the VFF Time Out heifers in the AB Select Sale he is definately a bull worth tracking.  Ihaven't seen any calves out of him.  What are his bull alves lke?
Also in the atalog I see KCM Prowler has semen to sell.  He would be an excellent choice if semen were available.  A link to the catalog: http://issuu.com/pdrneepawa/docs/aca_catalogue_web?e=2717029/5293420
The main reason I would not line breed to firewater is that he does not offer the calving ease you obviously are looking for.

 

[Freddy]

Liked the look's of the PROWLER bull ,to bad they didn't have any progeny for a guy to see also .....The Cigar  semen I have I need to take and get tested so that  I can sell it
or throw it away ...We used some with another bull in a flush and that's why I need to DNA those calves and see if any are CIGARS .......

MARK H and I spar with each other about type bulls to use but I still respect his opinion for his environment and devotion to EPD'S ....I LIKE SURE bet's and when accuracy is below 70 % I'M not impressed ....I have seen EPD'S fail as many times as they have been correct ....Usually when bull is 5-6 years of age you have accuracy for the bulls that have been used enough, there are bulls out there that haven't been used by enough people that are better than a lot that we use all the time and promote .....Inaccurate
EPD'S GET SOME YOUNG BULLS USED AT a young age and then we find out later what they really are ....EPD'S ARE a good tool but common sense and your environment prevail ....

Pictures of a young bull 79y  that was raised in S.D. and owned by club calf raiser in IOWA............just had three fall calves ,birth in the 80's ,LT breeding on top and ODDEN
breeding on the bottom ....

 

[Charguy]

Prowler was only used by a few breeders - haven't seen much. I saw some Time Outs but mostly heifers. Only saw 2 bull calves. Both were useful. Pictures of a few Time Out calves on Circle Cee website. I saw the sale heifer - she is real pretty. Could be thicker.  Mom is a Suspect and is good but too femine for me. Sale heifer was the most feminine calf by far. Most were almost frenchy - not show heifers but will make cows. There is a video - should be on website. Best bull calf at Circle Cee is a Ledger. Awesome calf. That bull worked well. Neat Raven bull calf out of Freedom cow too

 

[whitecow]

FYI...
Cigar semen sold for $425 per straw yesterday at the President & Reality Sale.

Other bulls to consider to add girth and depth are Keys All State and WR Wrangler 601. Wrangler has low birth wt and high growth EPDs.

 

[Bradenh]

WR Wrangler 601. Wrangler has low birth wt and high growth EPDs.

Thank you for answering that

 

[flyintale]

FYI...
Cigar semen sold for $425 per straw yesterday at the President & Reality Sale.

Thank you! I don't think I can justify spending that much per straw when all i'm aiming for is 1 calf.  If I were flushing her to him, that would obviously be a different story.

 

[aj]

My semen jug sheet shows I have 3 cigar straws(black maine bull?). Mine came from genetic horizons......Ks......I ain't much of a wheeler dealer. I would sell mine......10 karma points.....and fairly cheap.

 

[Mark H]

Aj,
Close but no Cigar.  Here ia link to LHD Cigar E46: http://www.debruyckercharolais.com/herdsires.aspx