Making American Steers

[RyanChandler]

Never said anything about brahman.  Said they were 3/8 shorty. 
<beer>

Foreign blood influence is in every breed, but honestly, I think with most American breeds, the foreign influence has come from british or continental breeds, not brahman.

Being a Gert breeder, why don't you take the time to inform us all about the Gert assoc's SGBI NuGen program.

 

[doc-sun]

Sounds like a great idea... Problem is finding a SH with enough power in the hip, stifle, and lower third to offset the Brahman influence.  Its hard to be competitive in the South with a pure bred SH in the steer division for the same reason.

i have a fullblood maine bull i think would work. if there were 30 or 40 good beefmaster cows i might send him to the right partner

here is a pic

 

[rackranch]

No shape in the round or stifle.  Exactly what I'm talking about, thanks for posting.

Sounds like a great idea... Problem is finding a SH with enough power in the hip, stifle, and lower third to offset the Brahman influence.  Its hard to be competitive in the South with a pure bred SH in the steer division for the same reason.

i have a fullblood maine bull i think would work. if there were 30 or 40 good beefmaster cows i might send him to the right partner

here is a pic

 

[MissouriMeadows]

I think there is a lot of confusion as to what has been said here.

The original comment was stated that it seemed a lot or several gerts appeared to have 3/8 shorty incluence.  I then said in a semi jestering and somewhat serious manner that I thought there were probably a lot of shorties that were 3/8 shorty as well.  Every breed has foreign influence whether people want to admit to it or not and regardless of whether their registry books are open or not.

I did not intend for the interpretation of the word foreign to be taken as from what country the genetics originated.  Foreign blood meaning that some parentage is not originated from the original breed example: a simmental sire would be foreign blood in a hereford operation.

I stand by my opinion that most foreign influence in American breeds is not Brahman but rather European or British.  I do not know of many American breeders that cross their cattle with Brahmans, let alone try to register those animals. 

The NuGen project is a project that started several years ago to recreate the Gert breed by using current day Brahman and Shorthorn genetics.  The resulting animals are introduced to the current Gert gene pool.  As with all breeds, many breeders try to pull the Assoc. into several directions at once.  You have your Purest, your Star5ers, your production minded, your show minded, and some are interested in the NuGen project. 

 

[RyanChandler]

You forgot to include the part about the Red Brangus' being used in the NuGen program. 
Again for those interested, the red brangus assoc allows upgrading as well using purebred Brahman and red angus blood.  There is new Brahman blood entering the gert gene pool via 1/2 Brahman 1/2 shorthorn bulls ( there was a topic about the king ranch using Waukaru bulls on here in the past) and via the introduction of the red Brangus.

Can you arrive at a 5/8 3/8 without using an F1? 

 

[MissouriMeadows]

I think you better do some more research.  1st They did not cross gerts with F1s  2nd Red brangus was not used  3rd I would have to look again but I think what they did was used some 3/4 bloods and crossed them again to derive the 5/8s .  thenhad to be crossed with a Gert bull before they were finished because all Gert registered animals have to go back to "Monkey".  You are correct though that they did use some  Waukara  genetics because the data collection in their herd is some of the most thorough in the breed.  Personally I have not used any NuGen progeny or semen.  I am more of a wait and see kind of guy. 

You seem a little argumentative or testy.  Have I offended you or your operation? 

If you would like to know more you can go to the source where it all was done.  MCRanch in GA.  They would be more than happy to tell you how it all happened.  Maybe you misread Red Brahman as Red Brangus?

 

[MissouriMeadows]

I feel like this thread has been hi-jacked a little bit from its original intent but I just remembered Harold Bertz telling me that he had heard that one of the  bulls that they used was a shorthorn bull that I think was a Sutherland bull (memory is a little fuzzy because that was a few years ago and it was just a conversation).  I think that is what I recall.  I think I remember it being a bull that my brother in law Jim Sneed said was used years ago in his brother Rob's herd.  Again I might be crossing my wires here because that was a while back.  Anyways, another thing you might be thinking of concerning the Red Brangus is the King Ranch's use of Red Angus which I think they only use Brown's Red Angus in their composite program.  The have several 1/2 bloods that they cross with Gelbvieh 1/2 bloods, hence the Santa Cruz operation.  The king Ranch did not develop the NuGen breeding.

Here is a link to McRanch's Nugen project but it needs updated.  I haven't done a whole lot of research on them 'cuz I haven't used them myself.

http://www.mcranch.com/nugen.html

I also know the Gert bull that was used in the final stages was a bull called Earl and one of the NuGen bulls that is being promoted is a bull called Legend.

Here is a link that has these two bulls

http://www.gertbulls.com/stats/

 

[RyanChandler]

I think you better do some more research.  1st They did not cross gerts with F1s  Yes they did.  It was the second cross which made the 3/4 shorthorn 1/4 brahman female. I was wrong. They used F1 cows not bulls. 2nd Red brangus was not used You are correct, I misread. Either way, new brahman blood was/is being introduced. 3rd I would have to look again but I think what they did was used some 3/4 bloods and crossed them again to derive the 5/8s. thenhad to be crossed with a Gert bull before they were finished because all Gert registered animals have to go back to "Monkey". the fact that monkey was a cross bred bull led me to believe that that weren't breeding the 3/8-5/8 by using purebred bulls directly. You are correct though that they did use some  Waukara  genetics because the data collection in their herd is some of the most thorough in the breed.  Personally I have not used any NuGen progeny or semen.  I am more of a wait and see kind of guy.  Good for you, I wouldn't touch it either.  I don't like the idea of 7/8 being considereed purebred, I don't even like 15/16ths for bulls. Ive attached a picture of 1 approach to upgrading Gerts

You seem a little argumentative or testy.  Have I offended you or your operation?  Definintely not.  I love Gert cattle.  My assertive reaction to the blasphemy over on the Firewater topic was carrying over. I do apologize if I sounded brash.

If you would like to know more you can go to the source where it all was done.  MCRanch in GA.  They would be more than happy to tell you how it all happened.  Maybe you misread Red Brahman as Red Brangus?

 

[RyanChandler]

Sounds like a great idea... Problem is finding a SH with enough power in the hip, stifle, and lower third to offset the Brahman influence.  Its hard to be competitive in the South with a pure bred SH in the steer division for the same reason.

i have a fullblood maine bull i think would work. if there were 30 or 40 good beefmaster cows i might send him to the right partner

here is a pic

He's got plenty of shape for me.  I like him.  I much prefer him over the other 2 mature bulls you posted awhile back.  I like that kudo son on the last page of the MAINE topic as well! 

 

[MissouriMeadows]

ok.  That may be.  I thought you were saying they took F1s and bred them to gerts and wallah it was done.  I am not sure that breeding them to gerts in the second stage was done (I would have to look into it) because I think they had to breed them to gerts in the last stage to make them gerts so they would go back to monkey (making them true gerts) if that makes sense the way I put it.  I think they were a 5/8 3/8 mix before they bred them to gerts but reserve the right to be wrong on that part of it.