New Beef Registry
- Thread starter cbcr
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Peter Sullivan no longer works for CGIL and is now working on Multi-trait Across Country Evaluation (MACE) systems for dairy cattle. He now works for the Canadian Dairy Network and has one of the most cited works in animal genetics right now: http://www.gsejournal.org/content/42/1/7. Note he is using genomic data to simplify EPD (EBV) generation for dairy cattle. We need funding for the same work in beef cattle.
A very good reference CGIL produced on quantitative genetics is at: http://cgil.uoguelph.ca/pub/Henderson/CH2.pdf
A very good reference CGIL produced on quantitative genetics is at: http://cgil.uoguelph.ca/pub/Henderson/CH2.pdf
While he no longer works for CGIL, he is still involved in the genetic evaluation model that is used for our evaluations.
While some of the research you are asking about is being done, memberships, registrations and using our program will allow for further development and research to be done. Research does require funding but but research cannot be accomplished without data.
If we work together this CAN be accomplished.
While some of the research you are asking about is being done, memberships, registrations and using our program will allow for further development and research to be done. Research does require funding but but research cannot be accomplished without data.
If we work together this CAN be accomplished.
Mark H said:
I just now noticed, LOOK AT MY POST. What did I write?
The models were [size=10pt][size=10pt]adapted and refined[/size][/size] by Dr. Pete Sullivan [size=10pt][size=10pt]and[/size][/size] researchers out of the Centre for Genetic Improvement of Livestock (CGIL) at the University of Guelph.
My post never said ANYTHING about him working for CGIL.
as a cpa, it seems to me this organization has been formed opposite most cattle registrys. usually a group of interested breeders meet, form a non profit corp, elect directors and officers from those present, capitalize the organization and begin to to business recording and promoting the members cattle. those and future members review the organizations activities and vote for a slate of new directors each year. while i think this registry may be feasible, i see no indication that it has been properly organized in a way other than to collect fees for the people who started the site with no guarantees of ever being governed by its members.
The Composite Beef Cattle Registry is a for profit, I'm not hiding that fact.
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]We offer goods and services, just as any other business would with prices for such goods and services. Where does it say we or any other organization needs to be a non-profit to offer the goods and services that we are?[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Goods[/size][/size] = Documentation listing parentage, EPD's and other vital information about the animal.
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Services[/size][/size]= Members will have access to the database to input herd information, receive information and reports to assist them in the management and genetic improvement of their herd.
Our plans DO include having directions and input from the membership, DO NOT MAKE IMPLICATIONS or ACCUSATIONS that you don't know.
How can a business improve or grow without customers? We are no different.
again her is our Mission Statement
To provide genetic evaluation along with other programs and services that enhances the genetic potential of Composite Beef Cattle. [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]We pledge to strive for the success of our members and the beef industry by creating marketing opportunities that add economic value.[/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]We offer goods and services, just as any other business would with prices for such goods and services. Where does it say we or any other organization needs to be a non-profit to offer the goods and services that we are?[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Goods[/size][/size] = Documentation listing parentage, EPD's and other vital information about the animal.
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Services[/size][/size]= Members will have access to the database to input herd information, receive information and reports to assist them in the management and genetic improvement of their herd.
Our plans DO include having directions and input from the membership, DO NOT MAKE IMPLICATIONS or ACCUSATIONS that you don't know.
How can a business improve or grow without customers? We are no different.
again her is our Mission Statement
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Mission Statement[/size][/size]
To provide genetic evaluation along with other programs and services that enhances the genetic potential of Composite Beef Cattle. [size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]We pledge to strive for the success of our members and the beef industry by creating marketing opportunities that add economic value.[/size][/size][/size]
I want to say that I have a calls today and made calls today. With an EXTREMELY POSITIVE response !
There is quite an interest in our Registry and what we are offering. Breeders are excited.
Composite Beef Cattle Registry
"We're here to serve"
(clapping) <party>
There is quite an interest in our Registry and what we are offering. Breeders are excited.
Composite Beef Cattle Registry
"We're here to serve"
(clapping) <party>
CBCR,
Are you offering the BIO animal tracking program biotrack? Is this where your herd management tools came from as well?
For fun here is BIOs' price list: http://www.biobeef.com/userfiles/files/Products%20and%20Services%20Fees.pdf
Are you offering the BIO animal tracking program biotrack? Is this where your herd management tools came from as well?
For fun here is BIOs' price list: http://www.biobeef.com/userfiles/files/Products%20and%20Services%20Fees.pdf
frostback said:
I love showing cattle, and producing cattle that do well in the ring, but from everything I have read on this thread, I think it would be a detriment to the registry. In many cases, the showring has gotten more cattle away from proper direction needed by the commercial cattleman than has benefited them. A heavy focus on carcass data, along with an extensive evaluation of birth weights, maternal traits, and performance, will provide the tools a commercial cattleman needs to breed his mongrels correctly.
Spend your money on carcass contests, and fed beef contests, not showring glitz and glamor
ZNT said:
Thanks for your input. I do agree. I spoke to a breeder the other day that was at a show and the judge really talked the first place animal up about how much bone he had and how his hair looked.
You can't eat bones and what does hair have to do with the type or quality of a carcass?
But at the same time we need our youth and many of them do show and exhibit animals, we need to encourage and support them too!
More input is welcomed
Mark H said:
What is YOUR agenda?
Yes, BIO is one of our partners and performing the genetic evaluations.
The rest of our program does more than any other web based program available today.
We have many years and time invested in research and development. As with any business their is competition, but right now we offer a more value added option for breeders and producers.
This is a post from another forum, but I think it has importance.
If you want to be different then add another number to the EPD's, Retained heterosis.
Will you be doing the research for potential crosses and if so will there be an extra charge for it.
I can see a lot more value in what I'm going to get than what I already have. And yes I understand you need to know what I already have to be able to predict what I am going to get.
Thank you for your comments. That is part of what Composite Beef Cattle Registry is about, "service".
EPD's can be done on any trait we want, but it takes data. For example on width of length of tail, so now everyone has to start measuring tail lengths.
What is important to you and what is important to your neighbor?
Your suggestion about the retained heterosis is a good idea, and I will check into it.
What else would be of importance to YOU as seedstock producers and what would be of importance to commercial producers? We would like to hear input from both sides.
One thing we aren't doing to start with are any $ indexes. Why? Look at some of the factors that go into $ indexes, price of grains, prices that cattle are bringing from weaning, from the backgrounders, the feedlot and the carcass prices. It would be easy to say that as much as these prices go up and down this $ index can change, but if the numbers changes just right between any part of the equation an index may calculate the same, but again it is possible that those parts of the equation that changed could possibly have a negative impact.
What we are researching and trying to come up with is a number index to use in place of the $ index that would be much more reliable and not be affected by the volatility of the prices of the commodities or prices of cattle.
As far as research for potential crosses, we feel that breeders in registering their cattle with the registry will provide the data for this. I think if it is anything else we would look at the situation.
If you want to be different then add another number to the EPD's, Retained heterosis.
Will you be doing the research for potential crosses and if so will there be an extra charge for it.
I can see a lot more value in what I'm going to get than what I already have. And yes I understand you need to know what I already have to be able to predict what I am going to get.
Thank you for your comments. That is part of what Composite Beef Cattle Registry is about, "service".
EPD's can be done on any trait we want, but it takes data. For example on width of length of tail, so now everyone has to start measuring tail lengths.
What is important to you and what is important to your neighbor?
Your suggestion about the retained heterosis is a good idea, and I will check into it.
What else would be of importance to YOU as seedstock producers and what would be of importance to commercial producers? We would like to hear input from both sides.
One thing we aren't doing to start with are any $ indexes. Why? Look at some of the factors that go into $ indexes, price of grains, prices that cattle are bringing from weaning, from the backgrounders, the feedlot and the carcass prices. It would be easy to say that as much as these prices go up and down this $ index can change, but if the numbers changes just right between any part of the equation an index may calculate the same, but again it is possible that those parts of the equation that changed could possibly have a negative impact.
What we are researching and trying to come up with is a number index to use in place of the $ index that would be much more reliable and not be affected by the volatility of the prices of the commodities or prices of cattle.
As far as research for potential crosses, we feel that breeders in registering their cattle with the registry will provide the data for this. I think if it is anything else we would look at the situation.
I would like to clear up what are probably a few misconceptions.
If a breeders belongs to more than one Registry or Association with more than one breed and would like to have genetic evaluations on his animals so that he can be able to ACCURATELY compare them to each other, he can join our Registry for the $25 per year. If his animals are already registered with another registry that is great, we will accept those registration into our database at no charge. The only thing that that producer will have to pay is the herd assessment fees based on the number of animals he has in the database.
If a breeder has animals that for 2 or 3 generations that he has let the registrations lapse, he can register the animals that are still in his herd. To register them with us is so much more affordable than what it would cost otherwise.
In then end, with the EPD's (ABC - Across Breed Comparisons) being calculated by us it offers producers a true across breed evaluation that YOU as breeders can better understand and use in YOUR breeding program, but it will help you in marketing animals to the commercial producer as well.
So, we don't care if someone comes to us with Reg. Simmental, Reg. Gelbvieh, Reg. Hereford, or is breeding Balancers (Gelbvieh/Angus), they are more than welcome to join us to use our services. When they join we will do EVERYTHING on our part to help them and promote them. As a member with us they can list cattle for sale, bulls for sale, private treaty of list an upcoming Auction they are having All for $25 per year. How much does it cost you to advertise in the local paper with a classified ad?
If you question what we are doing, go back and look again on this post about the differences in EPD of Mytty In Focus and how he comes out if we try using the BIF adjustments on his EPD's with four different breed association registries. (these BIF adjustments are all that is available for use, there is nothing else)
Please don't try and read more into it than what it is or make assumptions. Aren't we ALL in the beef business together? We are here to offer a value-added service to those who wish to use it, that is all, if we aren't for you, don't criticize those that do!!!
Thank You
If a breeders belongs to more than one Registry or Association with more than one breed and would like to have genetic evaluations on his animals so that he can be able to ACCURATELY compare them to each other, he can join our Registry for the $25 per year. If his animals are already registered with another registry that is great, we will accept those registration into our database at no charge. The only thing that that producer will have to pay is the herd assessment fees based on the number of animals he has in the database.
If a breeder has animals that for 2 or 3 generations that he has let the registrations lapse, he can register the animals that are still in his herd. To register them with us is so much more affordable than what it would cost otherwise.
In then end, with the EPD's (ABC - Across Breed Comparisons) being calculated by us it offers producers a true across breed evaluation that YOU as breeders can better understand and use in YOUR breeding program, but it will help you in marketing animals to the commercial producer as well.
So, we don't care if someone comes to us with Reg. Simmental, Reg. Gelbvieh, Reg. Hereford, or is breeding Balancers (Gelbvieh/Angus), they are more than welcome to join us to use our services. When they join we will do EVERYTHING on our part to help them and promote them. As a member with us they can list cattle for sale, bulls for sale, private treaty of list an upcoming Auction they are having All for $25 per year. How much does it cost you to advertise in the local paper with a classified ad?
If you question what we are doing, go back and look again on this post about the differences in EPD of Mytty In Focus and how he comes out if we try using the BIF adjustments on his EPD's with four different breed association registries. (these BIF adjustments are all that is available for use, there is nothing else)
Please don't try and read more into it than what it is or make assumptions. Aren't we ALL in the beef business together? We are here to offer a value-added service to those who wish to use it, that is all, if we aren't for you, don't criticize those that do!!!
Thank You
Breed Association EPD’s and Multi-Breed EPD’s
As we have said in previous posts, with our genetic evaluation, an Angus can be compared to a Hereford, and likewise these two animals can be compared equally with any other breed such as Simmental, Brangus, Shorthorn, or even a Composite animal with more than one breed such as an Angus/Hereford, Angus/Shorthorn/Simmental/Gelbvieh, and the list and combinations can go on and on.
The system that we use is truly multi-breed in all aspects (meaning Angus, Shorthorn, Charolais, Red Angus, Brangus, Gelbvieh, Simmental, Maine Anjou, Composites, etc.) , which makes it globally unique. Our model has extensive central test data, which many breeds do not include in their evaluations.
The most recent genetic evaluation that ran last week included 2.5 million animals. The animals in the database are a mixture of purebred (different breeds), and Composite cattle of various breed compositions.
There are other multi-breed models out there (e.g. run by the American Simmental Association as developed at Cornell University), but they are applied to data bases from a single Breed. These data bases will have crossbred cattle if used by that breed, but are not really multi-breed because they are mostly limited to a single breed. AGI and a small handful of others (using the model as developed at Cornell University), and BreedPlan offer evaluation services to breed associations. We are not aware of any joint analysis of data from more than 1 (or a very small number of) breeds at a time.
Seedstock producers have been asking for true multi-breed evaluations, which so far has not happened.
The biggest obstacle in the way for a true multi-breed evaluation to happen is for ALL Associations and Registries to share data. But because of politics within Associations and Registries this will be an almost impossible task.
Calls and conversations with individuals with different breeds are applauding our efforts and what we are doing.
As we have said in previous posts, with our genetic evaluation, an Angus can be compared to a Hereford, and likewise these two animals can be compared equally with any other breed such as Simmental, Brangus, Shorthorn, or even a Composite animal with more than one breed such as an Angus/Hereford, Angus/Shorthorn/Simmental/Gelbvieh, and the list and combinations can go on and on.
The system that we use is truly multi-breed in all aspects (meaning Angus, Shorthorn, Charolais, Red Angus, Brangus, Gelbvieh, Simmental, Maine Anjou, Composites, etc.) , which makes it globally unique. Our model has extensive central test data, which many breeds do not include in their evaluations.
The most recent genetic evaluation that ran last week included 2.5 million animals. The animals in the database are a mixture of purebred (different breeds), and Composite cattle of various breed compositions.
There are other multi-breed models out there (e.g. run by the American Simmental Association as developed at Cornell University), but they are applied to data bases from a single Breed. These data bases will have crossbred cattle if used by that breed, but are not really multi-breed because they are mostly limited to a single breed. AGI and a small handful of others (using the model as developed at Cornell University), and BreedPlan offer evaluation services to breed associations. We are not aware of any joint analysis of data from more than 1 (or a very small number of) breeds at a time.
Seedstock producers have been asking for true multi-breed evaluations, which so far has not happened.
The biggest obstacle in the way for a true multi-breed evaluation to happen is for ALL Associations and Registries to share data. But because of politics within Associations and Registries this will be an almost impossible task.
Calls and conversations with individuals with different breeds are applauding our efforts and what we are doing.
oldcowpoke
Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2011
- Messages
- 5
cbcr said:
So if I send in a weaning weight on a calf I can get an EPD on him? Or are there any requirements that I have to meet first in regards to the data? Also, are there no other associations computing a multiple breed EPD in their evaluations?
So if I send in a weaning weight on a calf I can get an EPD on him? Or are there any requirements that I have to meet first in regards to the data?
For a more accurate EPD, we would need the parentage (preferably with their birth and weaning weights at least) and we would like to have at least 3 generations.
Also, are there no other associations computing a multiple breed EPD in their evaluations?
I will re-quote this from the previous post:
[size=10pt]The system that we use is truly multi-breed in all aspects[/size] (meaning Angus, Shorthorn, Charolais, Red Angus, Brangus, Gelbvieh, Simmental, Maine Anjou, Composites, etc.) , which makes it globally unique. Our model has extensive central test data, which many breeds do not include in their evaluations.
There are other multi-breed models out there (e.g. run by the American Simmental Association as developed at Cornell University), but they are applied to data bases from a single Breed. [size=10pt][size=10pt]These data bases will have crossbred cattle if used by that breed, but are not really multi-breed because they are mostly limited to a single breed.[/size][/size] AGI and a small handful of others (using the model as developed at Cornell University), and BreedPlan offer evaluation services to breed associations. We are not aware of any joint analysis of data from more than 1 (or a very small number of) breeds at a time.
For a more accurate EPD, we would need the parentage (preferably with their birth and weaning weights at least) and we would like to have at least 3 generations.
Also, are there no other associations computing a multiple breed EPD in their evaluations?
I will re-quote this from the previous post:
[size=10pt]The system that we use is truly multi-breed in all aspects[/size] (meaning Angus, Shorthorn, Charolais, Red Angus, Brangus, Gelbvieh, Simmental, Maine Anjou, Composites, etc.) , which makes it globally unique. Our model has extensive central test data, which many breeds do not include in their evaluations.
There are other multi-breed models out there (e.g. run by the American Simmental Association as developed at Cornell University), but they are applied to data bases from a single Breed. [size=10pt][size=10pt]These data bases will have crossbred cattle if used by that breed, but are not really multi-breed because they are mostly limited to a single breed.[/size][/size] AGI and a small handful of others (using the model as developed at Cornell University), and BreedPlan offer evaluation services to breed associations. We are not aware of any joint analysis of data from more than 1 (or a very small number of) breeds at a time.
Breed Association EPD’s / BIF / Multi-Breed EPD’s
As we have said in previous posts, with our genetic evaluation, an Angus can be compared to a Hereford, and likewise these two animals can be compared equally with any other breed such as Simmental, Brangus, Shorthorn, or even a Composite animal with more than one breed such as an Angus/Hereford, Angus/Shorthorn/Simmental/Gelbvieh, and the list and combinations can go on and on.
There was a question posted about the Angus bull Mytty In Focus. So we answered with what his WW EPD would be if we used the BIF adjustments with his EPD's that were from Angus, Simmental, Gelbvieh and Limousin Associations as an example those adjustments were +54 - Angus / +63.1 - Simmental / +42.7 - Gelbvieh / +58.4 - Limousin. The same bull but over 20 lbs difference between the lowest adjusted and highest adjusted WW EPD's.
Look at what has happened to cow size. The Angus breed has increase cow size while most of the Continental breeds have reduced cow size.
Simmental 1353 pounds
Hereford 1348 pounds
Angus 1342 pounds
Charolais 1339 pounds
Limousin 1330 pounds
Gelbvieh 1282 pounds
The system used by the Composite Beef Cattle Registry, is truly multi-breed in all aspects (meaning Angus, Shorthorn, Charolais, Red Angus, Hereford, Brangus, Gelbvieh, Simmental, Maine Anjou, Composites, etc.) , which makes it globally unique. Our model has extensive central test data, which many breeds do not include in their evaluations.
The most recent genetic evaluation that ran last week included 2.5 million animals. The animals in the database are a mixture of purebred (different breeds), and Composite cattle of various breed compositions.
There are other multi-breed models out there (e.g. run by the American Simmental Association as developed at Cornell University), but they are applied to data bases from a single Breed. These data bases will have crossbred cattle if used by that breed, but are not really multi-breed because they are mostly limited to a single breed. AGI and a small handful of others (using the model as developed at Cornell University), and BreedPlan offer evaluation services to breed associations. We are not aware of any joint analysis of data from more than 1 (or a very small number of) breeds at a time.
Seedstock producers have been asking for true multi-breed evaluations, which so far has not happened.
The biggest obstacle in the way for a true multi-breed evaluation to happen is for ALL Associations and Registries to share data. But because of politics within Associations and Registries this will be an almost impossible task.
As we have said in previous posts, with our genetic evaluation, an Angus can be compared to a Hereford, and likewise these two animals can be compared equally with any other breed such as Simmental, Brangus, Shorthorn, or even a Composite animal with more than one breed such as an Angus/Hereford, Angus/Shorthorn/Simmental/Gelbvieh, and the list and combinations can go on and on.
There was a question posted about the Angus bull Mytty In Focus. So we answered with what his WW EPD would be if we used the BIF adjustments with his EPD's that were from Angus, Simmental, Gelbvieh and Limousin Associations as an example those adjustments were +54 - Angus / +63.1 - Simmental / +42.7 - Gelbvieh / +58.4 - Limousin. The same bull but over 20 lbs difference between the lowest adjusted and highest adjusted WW EPD's.
Look at what has happened to cow size. The Angus breed has increase cow size while most of the Continental breeds have reduced cow size.
Simmental 1353 pounds
Hereford 1348 pounds
Angus 1342 pounds
Charolais 1339 pounds
Limousin 1330 pounds
Gelbvieh 1282 pounds
The system used by the Composite Beef Cattle Registry, is truly multi-breed in all aspects (meaning Angus, Shorthorn, Charolais, Red Angus, Hereford, Brangus, Gelbvieh, Simmental, Maine Anjou, Composites, etc.) , which makes it globally unique. Our model has extensive central test data, which many breeds do not include in their evaluations.
The most recent genetic evaluation that ran last week included 2.5 million animals. The animals in the database are a mixture of purebred (different breeds), and Composite cattle of various breed compositions.
There are other multi-breed models out there (e.g. run by the American Simmental Association as developed at Cornell University), but they are applied to data bases from a single Breed. These data bases will have crossbred cattle if used by that breed, but are not really multi-breed because they are mostly limited to a single breed. AGI and a small handful of others (using the model as developed at Cornell University), and BreedPlan offer evaluation services to breed associations. We are not aware of any joint analysis of data from more than 1 (or a very small number of) breeds at a time.
Seedstock producers have been asking for true multi-breed evaluations, which so far has not happened.
The biggest obstacle in the way for a true multi-breed evaluation to happen is for ALL Associations and Registries to share data. But because of politics within Associations and Registries this will be an almost impossible task.
