aj said:
I guess I'm not sure what I need to apologize for but if one is in order I will. I try to apply a modecum of Levity once in a while. Jit apparently I rub you the wrong way. I sometimes get a kick out of how important purebred show cattle people take themselves. I have noticed that people want to be included in the important ring of people and they will drop names and everything else to get into the social circles. It gets to be more about the breeders then the cattle themselves. JIT I hope you sell a 100 more bulls to groups of seven commercial men for an even 20,000 $ in the years to come. I can't remember what the name of the placein Canada that so impressed you years ago. I know you mentioned it once on here. It was a showplace where each bull was petted and combed every day. If I would visit this place maybe I would understand your world a little better. If I admitted to visiting a place where 8 year old bulls were brought into a pen and curried everyday they would kick me out of the state. But Canada is like another country I guess. So JIT,Oakbar, and the rest of the Shorthorn circle of Country club stlye breeders I appologize for stepping on the sanctity of the way you view yourselves. I will refrain from spewing my hatred untill I read another huggy touchy feely interaction of the Shothorn circle of friends on steerplanet. John I appologize for my sense of humor. Long live the breeders of Shorthorn cattle. The cattle are pretty darn good too! ;D
aj... it seems that I rub YOU the wrong way. I actually chuckled when you referred to my operation as being a " Purebred show cattle" operation. I normally show at one show a year, with this past year being an exception. This year we also took two bulls we raised to the Denver show. It has been over 25 years since we have shown at Denver or any other US show, so if that make me a purebred show operation, I guess I will have to be saddled with this... well, at least by you. I think my cows would disagree with you about my operation being a country club atmosphere. My cows are run on a very commercial basis, existing on hay and a little salt and mineral. I do not have bins of grain or other supplemental feed.Today my cows are all huddled up against a slab fence in a raging blizzard. I suspect my cows are wondering about this country club existence today!
I would be very foolish not to be very conscious of the needs of my commercial customers as they are the basis of my existence. I try to sell cattle to anyone who is interested, as my cattle are most of my livelihood. Quite frankly, I find most commercial men are willing to pay more for a good herd bull than many purebred breeders. I feel very fortunate to have sold a very few cattle for what I consider good prices in my lifetime. You seem to be obsessed with the fact that 8 cattlemen, of which 7 were purebred breeders, and 1 was a commercial man with over 1000 cows,purchased a bull from me for $20,000. This amounted to $2500 each, and quite frankly, I fail to see how it is anyone else's business where they decide to spend their money. I had nothing to do with this happening, but I am thankful and wish them all the best.
I appreciate it very much that you did respond and apologize for some of your comments. I usually stop by SP when I am having my morning coffee and when I read your comments, I stopped and re- read it more than a few times. I asked myself" is he just trying to be humorous here, or does he actually mean what he wrote?" After reading it several times, I still did not see much humor in it, and quite frankly, it was still insulting. I would have commented about this if your comments were about anyone... .whether I knew them or not. While I appreciate the fact that you did apologize, I do wish you could have done it without trying to insult others. By doing this you have greatly diluted the sincerity of your apology. I do not consider it humor, if you have to insult or degrade some one else in the process.
Now back to the original topic in this thread.....
CWshorthorns... I have not seen your cattle in person or in pictures, but I can see some very useful cattle in their backgrounds. The older cow you have, BFS Heide, combines some genetics that have worked well over time. Her sire Eastwood, combines Dividend's Impact and QH Destiny, and this is a combination that worked well at Schrag's as well as anywhere else it was used. This cow's dam is a daughter of Pa Do Proud Poncho, who is a son of Rodeo Drive and Sutherland Princess 238. I remember the Princess 238 cow very well, and she was a powerful beast. She was a leading donor in Stout's herd, and if she was alive today, she would be very popular. She produced more than a few good ones. The lineage of the cows in this female goes back to the great Hubs Buttercup cow family. The Buttercup's I saw in Virgil Wegener's herd over 30 years ago, are still etched in my mind as some of the best females I have seen. Your cow also has Fifth Avenue and JBS Astronaut in her make-up as well. Fifth Avenue probably added more thickness and growth to his offspring than any other bull in his era. Astronaut was an all round good sire of females and bulls, and he is a bull that could be used again today.
The heifer you are wanting to breed, also has an interesting genetic background. There are three crosses of Rodeo Drive fairly close up in her pedigree, so I would suggest you find a sire to use that is an outcross to him. I was not a great fan of Boris, as I thought many of his offspring were too tall and frail, however, I have seen a few simply outstanding offspring from him. I tried to buy a couple daughters of Boris to use as donor females, based on their own greatness. The owner also realized how good they were and I was not able to get them purchased. Looking back a few generations I actually found a bull that I had bred... a bull named IDS Foundation. He was a full Irish bull sired by a very moderate framed son of Deerpark Improver named Yankee Improver. He was owned by Lloyd Waters in Illinois. The dam of IDS Foundation was one of the best full Irish females I have ever owned,... or seen. She was named Deerpark Strawberry 11th. She was nearly flawless in design, and had a picture perfect udder. Going back further in this pedigree, on her dam's side, there is many names from the past, such as Lynnwood, TPS, and Leveldale. These genetics would have been smaller framed, easy fleshing cattle.
There is a wide array of sires that would probably work on your older cow. I would suggest that you try to find a sire with as much thickness, and capacity along with moderate calving ease as you can. There are many sires available now that would fit this order, but it is very hard for me to even suggest some without seeing your cow. As for your heifer, your first priority should be to get a live calf preferably born unasissted from her. I think there are some very good choices in the Shorthorn breed presently that offer this, but also will give you a calf that is simply more than just a throw away calf. Good luck with your females. There are more than a few Shorthorn folk on SP that would be more than pleased to help in any way they can, myself included. Please feel free to ask about any questions you have. There is no such thing as a dumb question here.
