Opinions on the shorthorn bull JSF GAUGE 137W?

[LittleHeifer]

Does anyone know the Shorthorn bull JSF GAGE? Has anyone used this Bull? What are your experiences/oppinions?
Little Heifer (angel)

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Hes new this year-=good conventional breeding-probably a safe calver-not very showy-wouls want to breed to a real thick clubby type.

 

[katie_k]

We used him to breed my county steer for this year. We had to pull him because his butt was too big for the heifer.  Personally I was fairly impressed with his calves. Good natured and calm. Ill post a couple pics. Sorry the calf is pretty green in them

 

[katie_k]

More

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Kudos on a thick one-Guage reminds me of alot of the Byland cattle-thick if you breed em to the right cow-but little to 0 eye appeal-like the Pa Doh cattle-but he would work good on a clubby-but attractive female O0

 

[katie_k]

We bred him to my last years heifer.  Were hoping foranother thick one

 

[Lucky_P]

I'm a commercial producer, not a show or club calf producer.  Currently using some Shorthorn genetics in our breeding program - with an eye toward producing good 1/2 Shorthorn females.
Looked at the bull.  No way in hell I'd use him.  -4.3 maternal calving ease sealed the deal - I wouldn't want to keep a heifer by him.
Use as a terminal sire?  His WW/YW epds aren't anything to shout about; not much growth there, and negative carcass wt. and ribeye epds suggest the 'end product' is lacking.

Maybe he's got 'good hair' or a 'freaky front', I don't know - or care - about any of that stuff; but he sure wouldn't be anything I'd consider as moving a commercial beef program forward.

 

[kfacres]

I'm a commercial producer, not a show or club calf producer.  Currently using some Shorthorn genetics in our breeding program - with an eye toward producing good 1/2 Shorthorn females.
Looked at the bull.  No way in hell I'd use him.  -4.3 maternal calving ease sealed the deal - I wouldn't want to keep a heifer by him.
Use as a terminal sire?  His WW/YW epds aren't anything to shout about; not much growth there, and negative carcass wt. and ribeye epds suggest the 'end product' is lacking.

Maybe he's got 'good hair' or a 'freaky front', I don't know - or care - about any of that stuff; but he sure wouldn't be anything I'd consider as moving a commercial beef program forward.

maybe just a random question: but do any of the promoted JSF "Commercially acceptable" bulls- appeal to your standards.?

 

[sue]

Shorthorn MCE breed average  - well i didnt find it, probably not looking carefully enough.

Lucky is right  Gauge's    MCE  at  -5.4 falls in a 75% . However  + 0.5 is in the top 25%    +2.0 is in the top 15%  and +2.9 is in the top 10%. ( naturally I compared my own bulls)

Coppertop at the top 1% MCE  and I guessing w/o looking is a breed leader is a +10.2 ....  of the bulls I search most that had positive MCE were also fell in the top 1 to 5% for CE too? ?

 

 

[Okotoks]

Breed averages from 2011 ASA  sire summarry
CE  daughters   
-0.1    
CE direct
-1.23 
Birth Weight
2.0

 

[mark tenenbaum]

You are right Lucky P- BUT:there are still a good 8-10 proven Shorthorn and Shorthornx bulls that will work-and they are available to the everyday PEONS-like me-and you:and arent really part of the rich boys tradeing  club. Forwhat its worth-real world pay your way,LOW BW cattle are what Ive been after now for about 7 years-BUT-they have to grow too. Ill be glad to e-mail you some names-and newborn calf pictures,-and in my travels-would ask Larson,in Montana,JT in Coulee Washington and a few others what they have collected-at this stage .Along with people like Sue (and the breeders she knows )-they are probably some of the best Commercially oriented Shorthorns-in the world. Ditto-for some of the Canadian Cattle O0

 

[sue]

Breed averages from 2011 ASA  sire summarry
CE  daughters   
-0.1    
CE direct
-1.23 
Birth Weight
2.0

MCE  .... thanks I could find the above info ... looking for MCE

 

[sue]

thanks frost back.

Breed Ave for MCE is -1.23  .. however based on that  chart it puts gauge in the 85 to 90% .  sorry I should attach the link .. but I didnt. you can see my point however that as a breed we have some work.  If you're using any thing in the "+  ... you are on the right track.  Again I would agree if you're selecting for terminal traits well I dont know If i would select this sire either??? 

 

[RyanChandler]

thanks frost back.

Breed Ave for MCE is -1.23  .. however based on that  chart it puts gauge in the 85 to 90% .  sorry I should attach the link .. but I didnt. you can see my point however that as a breed we have some work.  If you're using any thing in the "+  ... you are on the right track.  Again I would agree if you're selecting for terminal traits well I dont know If i would select this sire either??? 

or this breed...

 

[OH Breeder]

We used him to breed my county steer for this year. We had to pull him because his butt was too big for the heifer.  Personally I was fairly impressed with his calves. Good natured and calm. Ill post a couple pics. Sorry the calf is pretty green in them

You are lucky using an unproven bull on a heifer as a calving ease bull. I would say that also was part of your calving issues.

 

[aandtcattle]

thanks frost back.

Breed Ave for MCE is -1.23  .. however based on that  chart it puts gauge in the 85 to 90% .  sorry I should attach the link .. but I didnt. you can see my point however that as a breed we have some work.  If you're using any thing in the "+  ... you are on the right track.  Again I would agree if you're selecting for terminal traits well I dont know If i would select this sire either??? 

or this breed...

Chandler, are you implying there are no terminal value to shorthorns??  Thats what it sounds like to me but not sure? Granted being shorthorns are a british breed, maternal function and calving ease should be the main priorities of breeders but from my experience, shorthorns are extremely profitable in the feedlot and on the rail too.  Compared to "big name" angus sires and a few black simmis my shorthorn and shorthorn x angus cattle have been the top gainers and highest net dollars critters I have marketed in the last 3-4 years. 

 

[LittleHeifer]

I have to say I am impressed with this bull! I just love my little Bull Calf! Quite showy Gauge was a good match to my heifer. sorry I only have newborn pics on the computer. I can't wait to show my little Bull Tuff

 

[Luke Bowman]

My thoughts....
On Non-parent Animals the MCE average is lower than -1.

What is the relation of MCE & CED (CE)?  What type of animals go towards the calculation of CED? MCE?

CED is measured on the Direct Calving Ease of the calf to come out of a heifer. It is primarily about the shape of the calf.  Since the bull is new, it may be best to speak to the folks that calved him out on heifers.  In addition, one would get a better idea of finding someone who had a large group of females that calved to this bull.  There you can start putting population genetics into play and get a range.  If one guy had 3-4 by a particular bull, that is not a good showcase on the bulls genetics potential.  But the best is when the Accuracy is higher than .85

Look in your recent Shorthorn County, or look up cattle on the ASA site and their CED scores; are the ‘stout at birth’ calves by high CED bulls and dams?  Or negative ones?

What about MCE?  That is the ability of a Sire’s daughters to calve with a measureable amount of zero to some degree of assistance.  How many females does this bull (Gauge) or many of the others gossiped about have daughters in reproductive production?  If the answer is none, or very few, OR if there are many and the information is not recorded and submitted, what good is a discussing on the number verses the experience on this forum or any other if people have had more than a few?  Either way, this is “Expected” on the sires “Progeny” and their “Difference” when compared to others (since we are analyzing the EPD).  If it’s only one percentage or point or pound, what do YOU think is the cut-off point for hard calving?  I personally don’t know the answer- Shorthorns don’t statistically PROVE (.85 accuaracy or greater)enough animals. 

Time will tellon Gauge & others, but between now and then, please keep recording your accurate data and submit it to the ASA, that’s going to continue to be the best way for us all measure our potential success with any particular sire.
-Luke

 

[LittleHeifer]

well my little bulls mom was a 2 year old heifer and she calved with no assistance, her hormones just went crazy. I plan to use Guage again.
little heifer (angel)

 

[JTM]

well my little bulls mom was a 2 year old heifer and she calved with no assistance, her hormones just went crazy. I plan to use Guage again.
little heifer (angel)

Glad you have had a good experience using Gauge! I agree with what Luke said above and have some to add. Unfortunately in a lot of situations people fail to turn in the negative information and you only hear about the positive information. Also, in situations where you would have a large amount of cows bred to the same bull and could get some ideas of the bulls performance, a lot of times those cows are going to be from a herd who has culled over many years for multiple traits. I think it makes just as much sense to take into account the guy who calved out 3 or 4 of them and how he feels a particular bull performed compared to others. Just my opinion. As with any bull, you never really know until the calves start hitting the ground.