Starting to think about flushing a shorthorn cow. Which bull should i flush to?

[Mark H]

How about using Alta Cedar Signature 119N.  That would work fine.  if you need more performance look at Saskvalley Ramrod 155R.  Both bulls are complete outcross and will give you the bulls and heifers you want beyond the show ring.

 

[Doc]

Nice Isobel, i would be using Cor Fear Factor to give you  a little something different and very saleable.

Heaven help me but I'm going to agree with Mark T. Not a good choice in my opinion.

 

[justintime]

I also have to agree with Mark T and Doc regarding Fear Factor. I am not sure why this bull kinda bombed, as I really thought he might do a decent job. With the exception of a couple calves I have seen, most have been bordering on " very ordinary".

It is rather interesting his sire, Sonny , has bred as well. When he was first used in Canada, most people who used him were very disappointed. I used Sonny in flushing a couple of my better donors and the calves were just so- so. I will agree that when you get a good Sonny calf, it is usually very outstanding, but he is capable of siring some duds as well. I only had two bull calves from him, but both only had one testicle and were barely good enough to keep as bulls, even if they had both testicles. Actually, there was very little Sonny semen used in Canada after the first calves arrived. After Sonny died, I decided I would try to buy the rest of what was left in Canada, but I was a few days late in deciding to do this, as it had been shipped back to the US. When this failed, I then contacted people who had used him. Of all the people I contacted, only one person did not want to sell their semen. Some were even thinking of throwing it out. Another breeder traded me 14 doses of Sonny for 14 doses of a bull I used over 30 years ago. I imagine some who read this, are shocked and insulted by my comments, as Sonny has now reached almost Sainthood, and some people would pay almost any amount for some semen from him.

I have two Sonny daughters in my herd and they are two outstanding females. As I said, the good Sonny offspring are usually very very good. Most of the Sonny offspring we see at the shows are also superb, but I have to wonder how many others that are quite ordinary there are that never see a show ring. I guess this is not very different than any other sire out there. The great calves sired by Sonny seem to be great breeding pieces themselves. I really thought Fear Factor would also breed this way, but from what I have seen, he hasn't managed to do this.

Now I better go wash my mouth out with soap!

 

[sue]

  I really like the Saskvalley Ramrod suggestion - again I just breed what I like and do what I like. Sonny has never worked for me  and I dont have that type of  customer following.  She is a nice female so if you dont need the cash breed for replacements and a herd sire potential. 

 

[justintime]

Another Saskvalley choice is Saskvalley Pioneer 126P who was Canadian national Champion bull in 06. Pioneer may have been the best all round bull I have ever owned. His calves have fleshing ability, growth and great dispositions, and all are polled. There is a long time cattleman and sales manager here in Canada who says he can select a sale offering just from pictures of the animal's heads. Take a look at Pioneer's head shot. Breed character doesn't come much better than this!

 

[shorthorn boy]

Hello everyone sorry I havn't relpied for a while, FFA has been keeping me pretty busy. I realy like the Canadian bull sugestions. No one has mention Off Road yet, I know he isnt Canadian himself but he is out of Leroy who is a Canadian bull.

 

[sue]

  I couldnt agree more with head shape but I am a bigger fan of Saskvalley Bonanza - he is still breeding natually and lord knows longevity is reality to beef cattle today and yesterday. I noticed Durango in the pedigree and he too bred for a long time. His photo is available www.muridale.com  or us semen is at Cattlevisions.

Off road has more shoulder then I personally need - I have not seen alot of Leroy offspring but would guess the extra shoulder is not coming from leroy's  side of the  pedigree?

Again you know your customers .

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Hello everyone sorry I havn't relpied for a while, FFA has been keeping me pretty busy. I realy like the Canadian bull sugestions. No one has mention Off Road yet, I know he isnt Canadian himself but he is out of Leroy who is a Canadian bull.

I  like Offroad-but he is pretty big and has some tailhead-and you have what would appear to be a pretty good sized cow. A strong reason (jmo) for Mickey-is the Dunbeacon Venture (enticer) and Sonny (rodeo cumberland) on Rolex(mark 4 Breeding) which is the premier combo of conventional (and Really Good) shorthorn breeding, plus we used a bull from Shrags that was a Sonny out of a SuperDazzler Mattis-and got along real well, adding a few more pieces to the 2 pedigrees. In this case withall the related the Australian breeding already in place-I feel  Micky  would really work. Alot of the Aussie cattle are  cool looking-but didnt work on our breeding for what is still a mystery to me-other than alot of the aforementioned peds.and except ing my( MAINE MAN)-Moomdi Powerplay. And I wont send lightning bolts to Doc-because he agrees with something I said. (lol) O0

 

[shorthorn boy]

So  far i think Mickey is the popular choice. I was just curious about Off Road he did look a little bigger in his picture but i wast sure. Thank you everyone for replying so far, everyone has been very helpful. The info about the australian breeding with my cow and mickey is very interesting mark and I had never really thought of it that way but it does make sense.  

 

[justintime]

Pioneer died at a very young age due to a very rare incidence, of a suspected blood clot or possibly encapsuled bacteria hitting his heart. I happened to be standing with him when he died. One minute he was playing and bouncing around the pen, the next moment he couldn't breathe. The vets said that occasionally if an animal has a bacterial infection such as foot rot, it's body will encapsule the bacteria in an attempt to rid it from it's system. The animal will live quite normally until such time that this breaks allowing the bacteria to move into it's circulatory system. They said when this happens, they will die within minutes if not sooner. Oftentimes, animals that die of this happening are just found dead and it oftentimes looks like they  dropped in their tracks.
I had never heard of this before Pioneer died, but two years later, one of my donor cows died at the ET center. They found her lying beside the trail leading to the water fountain. It looked like she had literally dropped while walking to get a drink. The post mortem diagnosed the same thing. Looking back through my records I found where this cow did have foot rot as a four year old cow. In Pioneer's case, we have no record of any illness of any kind, so it remains a bit of a mystery. In any case, it was probably one of the worst losses I have ever encountered.

I have Pioneer's grand mother here, and she is now 13 years old. She is the dam of Saskvalley Navajo who is now a herd sire at Nick Steinke's in Indiana. Here is a picture of her last summer as a 12 year old. She is one of my favorite cows and she just calved a few days ago with a red Weebollabolla Theodore bull calf that weighed 68 lbs at birth. She will be flushed this spring.

 

[OH Breeder]

So  far i think Mickey is the popular choice. I was just curious about Off Road he did look a little bigger in his picture but i wast sure. Thank you everyone for replying so far, everyone has been very helpful. The info about the australian breeding with my cow and mickey is very interesting mark and I had never really thought of it that way but it does make sense.  

I saw Off Road sell at Ohio Beef Expo. He was just one month shy of a year old at that time. I didn't think he was big at all. Byland's sold a few at the same sale. Their bulls were much larger frame score than Off Road. I really thought for a shorthorn he was pretty moderate. I don't think he is going to thrw as much size as some of the other Shorthorn bulls we have used like Final Solution. I really liked him. He was really soft made and seemed easy fleshing. I guess to get some mass and a s s you have to have a little shoudler. It wasn't too extreme.

Fear Factor. One of my neighbors was told to use him the first couple years on all of his shorthorns by the Semen rep. There wasn't one in the pack that was outstanding. Many were tall and kind of gangly flatter made and little narrow topped. He was used on a variety of cows in this gentleman's herd with a variety of blood lines as well as some percent cows. None of them seemed to be standouts.

I just recently started to recently research Saskvalley Bonanza . I really like the pictures and the off spring that they have on the Muridale site. He is on my short list for a new calving ease sire. His front picture he looks like he had some dimension and top to him. I am kind of excited to give him a try.

 

[shortdawg]

Is Off Road the Leroy son that was displayed in Denver this year ?

 

[justintime]

Yes Off Road is sired by Leroy... in fact he was the first Leroy bull calf born in the US

 

[sue]

I saw Bonanza as a 3 year old - buried inside a group of ultimate daughters. He is built like a tonka. They had a set of Bonanza calves out of Buster daughters. If I were investing in a flush today - I would have to use shorter statured  thick bulls like him or Captain or Jazz sons (sir patrick).  Then again that is what works for me.

 

[GM]

Speaking of Fear Factor, and Sonny offspring, I remember attending the 2003 NAILE and being impressed by a number of Shorthorn females.  That year there were a number of Trumps and CF Fortunes (Improver 57 x Rose t90) being shown.  Sitting in the stands I could not believe the uniformity and style of the Sonny females.  I walked down to where the cattle were waiting to enter the ring in order to get a closer look.  The Trumps all seemed very tall, and the Fortunes stood very staight over their front ends (i felt it was odd at the time...post legged maybe...curious if anyone else saw the same thing).  The Sonny's were as close to perfect and consistent as I have seen in half sisters at a show; even half sisters from different herds.  (side note, I do not own Sonny semen, calves, embryos, or have any financial connection)  There was a female named DJS Cherri 205 that was phenomenal, and ended up winning Supreme Champion.  I'm not sure there has been a more impressive female at that age since!!!  (She's a full brother to Churchill and 3/4 brother to DJS Prestige) Dark cherry red, thick, correct, feminine, etc.  I haven't seen too many Fear Factor calves...personally I thought he was a bit large framed, but I felt his sire, Sonny, has produced much more well rounded offspring than his grand sire, Trump, considering the cattle I have seen over the last ten years. (imo) 

The beauty of this discussion is that there truly are a lot of different genetics in the shorthorn breed.  The Canadian Shorthorns are very interesting, and provide an opportunity for inter-breed hybrid vigor considering the outcross potential.  I have thought that we'd see more of this in the lower 48 Shorthorns  due to Einmore Gus 80c, the Saskvalley bulls, the Alta Cedar bulls, Glenford bulls, Shadybrook, Uluru, and Horseshoe Creeks donor program and bull sales, forgive me to the rest of the outstanding Canadian Cattlemen i've left out. There was a bull named Fantasy Lane Toby sired by Spry's True Blue (who's australian and sired by the American bull JR Legend from JR Ranch in Othella, Washington) that has a picture in the March 2009 issue of Shorthorn Country.  He looks amazing in phenotype, has an outcross pedigree, and is touted as a calving ease bull.  It seems like we're on the verge of something different, but I'm not sure what that is just yet.  Don't you love raising cattle! Good luck!

 

[uluru]

GM
I am truly honored to be mentioned in the same sentence as Shadybrook, Horseshoe Creek, Saskvalley, Eionmore, Alta Cedar, Glenford and you probably should mention Muridale, Crooked Post, Hunts Farms  and many other long time Canadian Shorthorn breeders, but I have to say I have only been in this business with my cousin, McBeth Shorthorns for about 5 years, even though my father and uncle raised Shorthorns in the 40s and 50s.

I cannot put myself in the same category as these excellent Shorthorn breeders and cattlemen.
They are legends in their own time.

I am a newbie compared to these long time,very successful Shorthorn breeders and they have provided me, voluntarily with great assistance and many good genetics.
Thus, I do not deserve to be classed in the same category as these great guys.

Thank you for your kind comments about the Canadian Genetics and I truly believe the CANADIANS have a product that can do well around the world.

For many Canadian Shorthorn Genetics visit www.shorthorns.ca

 

[GM]

Don't sell yourself short.  I always thought Buster was a great bull, but we haven't seen enought of him in the national media (usa).  I've also thought that B Good livestock was on to something big when they mixed in west coast genetics from Don Cardey's Lucky Clover herd into their breeding program...great looking cattle in their sales crossed with Equity's Charmer type bloodlines made for a great combo...in addition to the Canadian genetics represented.  From a relative outsider looing in (who has lived in CA, MS, VA, and NY over the last 10years) I have seen great cattle from the midwest who are completely different from the great cattle on the west coast, and the great cattle up north in Canada.  There is also a bull overseas with the Deerpark prefix named Deerpark Furty that intrigues me, and I'm sure someone on SteerPlanet knows soemthing about him.  That's why I stop by here everyday

 

[[email protected]]

I want to throw an idea in this mix.

I like the way your cow is made. She looks just like she is bred.   Irish on top and ausie on bottom.  Little look and lots of performance.

Lets think progressive and possible line up some things and get possible better color.

Lets find a bull with similar genetics but are not too closely related.  Lets line up the improver and kaba rose breeding, and the aussie breeding to keep the performance.  Throw in a little trump and a wisp of maine,  which is very marketable.  Lining the rose should intensify the show look.  Which won't hurt if you are going to sell anything.  Last thing is, we all want color.  Color + quality usually makes money.

My thoughts lead to Sull Sinister 7082.

You didn't expect that from a steer guy. Did ya.

 

[Doc]

I want to throw an idea in this mix.

I like the way your cow is made. She looks just like she is bred.   Irish on top and ausie on bottom.  Little look and lots of performance.

Lets think progressive and possible line up some things and get possible better color.

Lets find a bull with similar genetics but are not too closely related.  Lets line up the improver and kaba rose breeding, and the aussie breeding to keep the performance.  Throw in a little trump and a wisp of maine,  which is very marketable.  Lining the rose should intensify the show look.  Which won't hurt if you are going to sell anything.  Last thing is, we all want color.  Color + quality usually makes money.

My thoughts lead to Sull Sinister 7082.

You didn't expect that from a steer guy. Did ya.

You know, I've liked the looks of him & his pedigree , just have'nt seen any calves by him & was wondering.

 

[justintime]

I want to throw an idea in this mix.

I like the way your cow is made. She looks just like she is bred.   Irish on top and ausie on bottom.  Little look and lots of performance.

Lets think progressive and possible line up some things and get possible better color.

Lets find a bull with similar genetics but are not too closely related.  Lets line up the improver and kaba rose breeding, and the aussie breeding to keep the performance.  Throw in a little trump and a wisp of maine,  which is very marketable.  Lining the rose should intensify the show look.  Which won't hurt if you are going to sell anything.  Last thing is, we all want color.  Color + quality usually makes money.

My thoughts lead to Sull Sinister 7082.

You didn't expect that from a steer guy. Did ya.

You know, I've liked the looks of him & his pedigree , just have'nt seen any calves by him & was wondering.

I like this idea... could be the best combo suggested yet!