Starting to think about flushing a shorthorn cow. Which bull should i flush to?

[sue]

What is progressive about breeding to more the same the same and the same ???? Sorry I just had to say it? God forbid someone think outside the box in Shorthorn

 

[kfacres]

;D (clapping)

for gosh sakes sue... that's like taking the lord's name in vain!!

Don't worry I cus too!

 

[justintime]

Sorry Sue, I am just thinking that this may be a very good combo of genetics. Of course there are many other out crosses that may or may not work, and I think we need to be willing to try some of them, but at the same time, there is nothing wrong with doing one flush to something that has worked before. The cow this family are thinking of flushing looks pretty good to me and I think she may be a candidate to be flushed more than once. It may also depend on what the objectives are for this flush. We should feel very fortunate that we have several good breeding sires in this breed. That was not always the case.

 

[Doc]

What is progressive about breeding to more the same the same and the same ???? Sorry I just had to say it? God forbid someone think outside the box in Shorthorn

I think that breeding your animal to the bull that will match up with her the best phenotypically & genetically to give you the best animal & the most return on your investment is what progressive is. I don't think just because you use a bull that has been dead for 30 years, or from a herd no one has ever heard of or just because it's a different line of genetics doesn't mean that you are being progressive. I'm like JIT a bit in the aspect I may flush a cow for the profit aspect then do a flush on a bull because I think it may work & I'm not planning on selling any of the eggs, but will be calving them out to see what the product is.
Just because you use the same genetics a lot of other people are using doesn't always mean you have drank the kool-aid, but sometimes means you are making the best business decision.JMO

 

[xxcc]

are there any old overlooked solid red bulls?

What is progressive about ... forbid someone think outside the box in Shorthorn

Ever thought of trying Iabon ?

 

[[email protected]]

Maybe I should change that word progressive to realistic. Oh it don't matter, someone will jump on that too.    Bottom line in any business is did you make any money.  You have to produce a product that reaches profitability and marketability at the same time.   The most successfull breeders make many of their breeding decisions based genetic history of their animals.  They also know when to reach out and try something new.  

My suggestion, which was just a suggestion, was based on my little knowledge of lining up genetics.  The improver 57 and rose are distant enough that it will work.  This mating would put 57 and rose on both sides of the pedigree.  That is what makes this work.  You can't line breed forever using the same genepool, because the well will go dry.  But in this case, lining up the genes have not been lined up befodre  could result in a great deal of profit.  When profit is not a concern then it becomes a hobby.   YOu know what? This is still a guess based on some experience. It might not work.  

Here is another realistic marketing tool.  The Sulivans are near the top of shorthorn producers.  It wont hurt having their genetics as a marketing tool.  If I am going to tie up time and dollars in a flush, I want to be able to promote a product that has some market ability based on name and genetic recognition.  If an animal is great then it won't matter.  It will sell itself,  But they all can't be great.  

hey, they asked for suggestions.  I gave them one.  Good Luck. ;D  
Go vikings,  Oh they didn't make the super bowl. D (lol)

 

[kfacres]

3807924  DEERPARK IMPROVER 57

i/m guessing this is the imp 57 bull that you are refering too?  What did he do for the breed?  (I know you are talking about how great he was, but what specifically did he do?)  I used to have a direct grand-daughter of this bull, but shipped her and now I just have a retained daughter!  I'm guessing many cattle trace back to him, but a little more distant than our heifer did. 

 

[[email protected]]

I never claimed he was great.  In his time he was a solid consistnat bull.  Combined with the right genetics it matched up really good.  As it did with kaba rose.  It is the concept of line breeding.  When a combo works you can introduce  the same genetics to the other side of the pedigree  and calves can become something special.  As did the mating of 57 and rose (something special).  The opportunity is there.  This combo was very competitive in the show ring with a great look. 
I have alwayss admired the stoutness and performance of the aussie lines, but felt they lacked the fancy look it took to stun the judges in the ring.  This opportunity allows a chance to line the show ring genes up little.  Who knows the fancy look may intensify and maintain the performance and stoutness of the aussie line.  The results could be special.  In a flush some of the calves could be average, but you have increased the odds of getting something special.

MMMM  my brain is hurtng now.  Too much thinking,  Gotta go to the farm.

 

[kfacres]

I never claimed he was great.  In his time he was a solid consistnat bull.  Combined with the right genetics it matched up really good.  As it did with kaba rose.  It is the concept of line breeding.  When a combo works you can introduce  the same genetics to the other side of the pedigree  and calves can become something special.  As did the mating of 57 and rose (something special).   The opportunity is there.  This combo was very competitive in the show ring with a great look. 
I have alwayss admired the stoutness and performance of the aussie lines, but felt they lacked the fancy look it took to stun the judges in the ring.  This opportunity allows a chance to line the show ring genes up little.  Who knows the fancy look may intensify and maintain the performance and stoutness of the aussie line.  The results could be special.  In a flush some of the calves could be average, but you have increased the odds of getting something special.

MMMM  my brain is hurtng now.  Too much thinking,   Gotta go to the farm.

I wasn't necessary refering to your post, just Improver 57 in general..  I hear that name many times in a conversation about Shorthorns in the past, and just had a light flash about our heifer years ago...  I don't doubt your philosophy on that potential mating...  I would guess it to work...  I love linebreeding, and bet I have linebred in my life, more than anyone else who visits this board... Maybe not with our cattle, but linebreeding in general.  I have a very competitive group of sheep at home, and with them I take linebreeding to the extreme.  On a side note, the outcross buck we tried last fall- failed miserably!! 

 

[shorthorn boy]

We actually had a Sinister calf born this past summer and it was a 120# bull calf that died a week after it birth because it wouldn't get up and nurse and we were tube feeding it but he never got any better. I really think what killed him was his lack of will to survive ( and those really big calves aren't exactly too bright). Thanks for the suggestion about Sinister but I would like to kinda stay away form him if at all possible. I too haven't heard of many Sinister calf reports. How about SS Kaboom? Anyone have any experience with Kaboom calves?

 

[kfacres]

Kaboom is a 3/4, brother to Mickey-  I think they also come from SS cows too!..  but I also beleive him to be PHA+...  I've heard he can make a good one every once ina while, but isn't as consitant as Mickey.  Maybe for steers, Kaboom might be the way to go though.. Mickey for heifers, IMO, especially with the PHA deal

He sure looks like a big, deep bodied rascal in the picture. though

The thing I always liked better about Mickey is that Rodeo Drive in there too!

 

[j3cattleco]

Kaboom is PHA free and yes both Mickey and Kaboom are Sonny's out of venture cow.  I have liked alot of the kaboom cattle I have seen.

Joshua

 

[Doc]

Kaboom is a 3/4, brother to Mickey-  I think they also come from SS cows too!..  but I also beleive him to be PHA+...  

I don't know where you got the idea Kaboom was PHA+. There's nothing in his pedigree for that. I personally like the Kabooms a lot more than the Mickeys' that I've seen & think you would have a more marketable product. I think that Kaboom could work on her.
I know that Martindell Farm is using a Red Rider Drive x HAA Countess 22P(DMCC Limited Edition dtr) on their Durango dtr's with good success.

 

[kfacres]

YOU ARE RIGHT, THINK I'M THINKING OF SECRATARIET

 

[shortdawg]

I have a half sib to Sinister running in my pasture out of Sonny.

 

[OH Breeder]

We actually had a Sinister calf born this past summer and it was a 120# bull calf that died a week after it birth because it wouldn't get up and nurse and we were tube feeding it but he never got any better. I really think what killed him was his lack of will to survive ( and those really big calves aren't exactly too bright). Thanks for the suggestion about Sinister but I would like to kinda stay away form him if at all possible. I too haven't heard of many Sinister calf reports. How about SS Kaboom? Anyone have any experience with Kaboom calves?

I have had a couple Kaboom females. They milk good and have nice udders. They can tend to have a little shoulder and birthweight. I like the depth of rib and shape he puts in a female. I think with any of the Trump cattle you can pick up Birthweight.