Just looking for some friendly debate on what is overkill or buying a championship. Example: would it be overkill when someone pays somewhere in the neighborhood of 30K for two steers knowing good and well that every other 4H kid in the county can only afford around 2500 per steer? I won't say for which county fair to protect the innocent or guilty but it is a po dunk county fair in non nationally competitive state meaning winning this county fair doesn't give you national recognition. Just looking for opinions. It won't affect me personally because my kids aren't old enough to show yet but they will in the not too distant future.
When is it considered overkill?
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For me, it all comes down to the POTENTIAL return.
In our county about 10% make the sale. The bottom end of the sale will bring about $2,500 plus the market value of the steer. So last summer that would have been about $4,500. If you win, you will end up with about $7,500.
We are fairly comfortable spending $3,500 for a county fair steer, knowing that we can get them in the sale and if we would happen to get lucky and win we will over double our money.
Unless these people you are talking about live in a county that pays $15,000 to win, I would say that is overkill.
Prospect shows add a completely different wrinkle. I just got off the phone with a steer producer/trader that we tried to buy a steer from last year. He had this steer priced above our budget, so we didn't buy him. That steer went on to win 11 or 12 prospect shows last winter/spring, and collected over $5,000 in Jackpot earnings.
We won't over spend to simply buy a county fair trophy.
In our county about 10% make the sale. The bottom end of the sale will bring about $2,500 plus the market value of the steer. So last summer that would have been about $4,500. If you win, you will end up with about $7,500.
We are fairly comfortable spending $3,500 for a county fair steer, knowing that we can get them in the sale and if we would happen to get lucky and win we will over double our money.
Unless these people you are talking about live in a county that pays $15,000 to win, I would say that is overkill.
Prospect shows add a completely different wrinkle. I just got off the phone with a steer producer/trader that we tried to buy a steer from last year. He had this steer priced above our budget, so we didn't buy him. That steer went on to win 11 or 12 prospect shows last winter/spring, and collected over $5,000 in Jackpot earnings.
We won't over spend to simply buy a county fair trophy.
knabe
Well-known member
overkill is what keeps the industry afloat.
JRapp
Well-known member
My question is.... are these folks in your county that spend this kind of money actually winning the show?
I think it's all relative to what the kid/families goal are. Is State Fair there goal but they run them through county to make up a little bit of the money they have lost through the year?
If it's just county fair I think that may be a bit overkill IMO
I think it's all relative to what the kid/families goal are. Is State Fair there goal but they run them through county to make up a little bit of the money they have lost through the year?
If it's just county fair I think that may be a bit overkill IMO
ifinditfunny
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It's considered overkill when you decide to stop bidding. it's none of our business to tell them how to spend their money. Get a budget that you're comfortable with and work with that let the others do what they want to do.
Been in cattle business for close to 50 years and the initial cost does not guarantee success.Hard work,proper feeding,excellent fitting and showmanship are what wins shows.If the kids don't help or let the person that sells them the calf keep it at their place and do the work the win would not mean much.I have sold some hard working young people calves for not much more than market as that is what they can afford and they will beat the high dollar ones quite often and then the feeling of accomplishment is real.The high dollar ones that don't turn out are usually talked about as much as the ones that do.
Spencer10218
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I'm totally with thisifinditfunny said:
I'm not accusing you of being a bad sport or lazy cattle man but I view it as putting in the work to beat 15k steer with on you paid 3k for
I can imagine it's one of the best feelings
That and seeing the dad get mad about it
This year we found ourselves in money/facility situation. We didn't have time(or money)to expand and had to house four show calves, a pig and broilers. We took what money we had plus the scramble cert and bought the best thing we could afford. We went to a reputable breeder and got quality genetics to give our son a fighting chance at Houston. We haven't went to Houston yet but we are super thrilled with our girl. She was 3rd in angus class 6 at Fort Worth. But my son only has this one calf to show this year so we tagged her for county. I have had rude comments to my face and one person even asked how much we paid for her. We haven't even had the show yet and are being treated like we cheated to win. While we haven't broken an official rules, we have been not to politely asked why we didn't buy a different heifer to tag for county instead of a major show calf.
I got off track in what I was trying to say, I do that sometimes when I am bragging on my kids. I am proud of them and I have every right to be. My point is we have not shown at our county yet. It is after Houston in late March. So we have not won anything. No big fish in a small pond. We hope to do well in Houston scramble show. There is no guarantee we will win anything but we have been treated in our county like we have done something terrible. All we did was go far away from here to buy a calf from a person nobody here knows anything about. That it the root of the problem in our county. If you do something different, break from the norm, everybody assumes you are hiding something, breaking rules, cheating, not playing fair. That couldn't be further from the truth. We just want to give our kids the best shot we can.
Yes I agree you should be very proud of your kids when they win and bragging is quite alright. I guess my problem all boils down to seeing someone tell everyone that at least their kid won as if there was no other option. Win at all costs! Also having the kid decline a handshake after the kid won and tell other kids that at least they know who the best is. And this all happens in a po dunk county fair especially when none of the other kids can even afford a cool barn and nothing better than a feedlot steer. To me, what's that teaching kids?rrblack78 said:
knabe
Well-known member
I'm no longer amazed at how people fail to see they are arguing out of both sides of their mouth.
It has always been the norm, and always will be, whether it be cattle, war, or love.
It has always been the norm, and always will be, whether it be cattle, war, or love.
nkotb
Well-known member
Yes I agree you should be very proud of your kids when they win and bragging is quite alright. I guess my problem all boils down to seeing someone tell everyone that at least their kid won as if there was no other option. Win at all costs! Also having the kid decline a handshake after the kid won and tell other kids that at least they know who the best is. And this all happens in a po dunk county fair especially when none of the other kids can even afford a cool barn and nothing better than a feedlot steer. To me, what's that teaching kids?
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It teaches kids that life is not fair, that other people have more money/choose to spend their money differently than you. We are in a "po dunk" county fair in Kansas. We also raise a few club calves for my kids to show. We are in our first years of 4-H, and are already hearing all the nasty comments. We showed a February 2014 heifer, and heard all about how she wasn't a bucket calf, etc. My daughter than went in, as a 7 year old, and won our county horse show. You wanna talk about nasty. What does that teach kids? Because someone is willing to work harder than you they must be bad? The horse nor the heifer's mother were expensive, we just worked really hard at it, and so what if they were expensive. There are families in our county who "just can't afford to spend that kind of money for a show animal," but are gone every weekend to their lakehouse, or on their boat, or to their condo in the mountains. We don't do any of that, we raise and show cattle and spend our weekends/vacations/holidays with our cattle. I figure I don't want anyone telling me how to spend my money, I'm not gonna tell them how to spend theirs.
[/quote]
It teaches kids that life is not fair, that other people have more money/choose to spend their money differently than you. We are in a "po dunk" county fair in Kansas. We also raise a few club calves for my kids to show. We are in our first years of 4-H, and are already hearing all the nasty comments. We showed a February 2014 heifer, and heard all about how she wasn't a bucket calf, etc. My daughter than went in, as a 7 year old, and won our county horse show. You wanna talk about nasty. What does that teach kids? Because someone is willing to work harder than you they must be bad? The horse nor the heifer's mother were expensive, we just worked really hard at it, and so what if they were expensive. There are families in our county who "just can't afford to spend that kind of money for a show animal," but are gone every weekend to their lakehouse, or on their boat, or to their condo in the mountains. We don't do any of that, we raise and show cattle and spend our weekends/vacations/holidays with our cattle. I figure I don't want anyone telling me how to spend my money, I'm not gonna tell them how to spend theirs.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
This is almost comical and one of the main reasons I always preferred playing sports over showing cattle. In sports, you're evaluated on your own merit. When you're at the plate or lined up across from someone, it doesn't matter if your old man makes 300k or if you don't even know who your dad is. None of that shit matters.
But as with all exhibitions, showing cattle is inherently about cash. Sure there will be scenarios where a kid gets gifted a good deal on a show steer and they're able to buy a 10k steer for 3k and then that calf goes on to compete how a 10k steer should. BUT that doesn't mean your 'hard work' made up the difference. You just happened to purchase an undervalued animal who went on to compete how he should with those in his intrinsic price range.
Knowing that exhibitions are a display of CASH, if you can't afford to compete, find a hobby that you can afford. Don't bash those who have the means just because you're GREEN WITH ENVY. Quit crying and find something that's within your family's budget that you have a chance of competing at and have fun.
But as with all exhibitions, showing cattle is inherently about cash. Sure there will be scenarios where a kid gets gifted a good deal on a show steer and they're able to buy a 10k steer for 3k and then that calf goes on to compete how a 10k steer should. BUT that doesn't mean your 'hard work' made up the difference. You just happened to purchase an undervalued animal who went on to compete how he should with those in his intrinsic price range.
Knowing that exhibitions are a display of CASH, if you can't afford to compete, find a hobby that you can afford. Don't bash those who have the means just because you're GREEN WITH ENVY. Quit crying and find something that's within your family's budget that you have a chance of competing at and have fun.
ifinditfunny
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To say you can't beat a $15,000 steer with a $3000 steer is a lack of insight.
Also don't forget some of the greatest lessons are not how to act but how not to act.
Also don't forget some of the greatest lessons are not how to act but how not to act.
