knabe
Well-known member
did you update your proletariat pic?
looking better.
looking better.
When is it considered overkill?
- Thread starter BroncoFan
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I have had to think a little bit about what to post on this because it may not be a popular stance on this issue but here it is. County shows are tricky and are almost always about politics and hurt feelings. If you want to see a bunch of adults that went to kindergarten together become mortal enemies tag your kids for county broilers. We have only done cattle for 3 years and major shows last year and this year but we have participated in our county show for 8 years. I think these situations teach kids life is not always fair. You have to work harder, be better and rise above the petty people. And know that after all that you could still get beat. I understand why you find what these people have done irritating. While their behavior may be "wrong" they haven't broken any rules. They have the right to spend their money however they choose. You better believe if I had 30k to spend on steers I would do it. What I don't understand is why someone would do it to win a county show. We would use that to buy the best genetics 30k could buy, work our butts off for a year then drag those steers to every major show in Texas. If after Houston we still had those steers in our barn, then yes we would show them at county.
librarian
Well-known member
There is a go cart track down the road from me. You have to cheat to win.
I ran the concession one year and the parents would be having fist fights over somebody's kid winning with unfair advantage while the same kids had forgotten about it and were playing chase over by where I was working.
I ran the concession one year and the parents would be having fist fights over somebody's kid winning with unfair advantage while the same kids had forgotten about it and were playing chase over by where I was working.
I have read through this post, and many of the comments (in my opinion) have gotten off track.
The question is "When is it considered overkill"?
To me, this is about taking a gun to a knife fight. It isn't about how much money someone has or how good of a job someone does in terms of finding an underpriced steer.
If these people want to burn a State Fair caliber steer at a county fair, it is perfectly within their rights.
We got our $2500 county fair steer beat a couple years ago by a $10,000+ steer that was reserve at Jr Nationals and could have no doubt made some serious noise at the state fair. Our $2500 steer was really a $5000 steer that we bought really late from a trader that was just cleaning out his inventory. We weren't upset by this. We just shook our heads and wondered what they were thinking when they brought a steer like this to the county fair. It was overkill in a sense that they brought 2 or 3 times the quality that it would have taken to win. It was so lop-sided that the judge didn't even go slap the champion. He just said that we have a pretty obvious champion here and now I am going to sort through a few of these others to find the Reserve. Even the judge thought it was overkill!
We can show at 2 different county fairs because we live in one county and our school is in another. One fair is strong, the other weak. We don't even take steers to the weak county fair because there is no point in taking the "gun to the knife fight". It would be overkill.
It isn't about whining and crying because someone else is willing to spend more money. It isn't about working harder or having a cooler or even a professional do the clipping. It is about wasting a high powered steer for a low powered show. That is overkill...although no rules have been broken. It is a clear demonstration of a family operating their show steer deal WELL within their comfort zone. It is like the 12 year old basketball team that averages 6"1" signing up in the bronze division. It is about not challenging ourselves or our children to compete on a stage that is bigger than their comfort zone. It is overkill.
The question is "When is it considered overkill"?
To me, this is about taking a gun to a knife fight. It isn't about how much money someone has or how good of a job someone does in terms of finding an underpriced steer.
If these people want to burn a State Fair caliber steer at a county fair, it is perfectly within their rights.
We got our $2500 county fair steer beat a couple years ago by a $10,000+ steer that was reserve at Jr Nationals and could have no doubt made some serious noise at the state fair. Our $2500 steer was really a $5000 steer that we bought really late from a trader that was just cleaning out his inventory. We weren't upset by this. We just shook our heads and wondered what they were thinking when they brought a steer like this to the county fair. It was overkill in a sense that they brought 2 or 3 times the quality that it would have taken to win. It was so lop-sided that the judge didn't even go slap the champion. He just said that we have a pretty obvious champion here and now I am going to sort through a few of these others to find the Reserve. Even the judge thought it was overkill!
We can show at 2 different county fairs because we live in one county and our school is in another. One fair is strong, the other weak. We don't even take steers to the weak county fair because there is no point in taking the "gun to the knife fight". It would be overkill.
It isn't about whining and crying because someone else is willing to spend more money. It isn't about working harder or having a cooler or even a professional do the clipping. It is about wasting a high powered steer for a low powered show. That is overkill...although no rules have been broken. It is a clear demonstration of a family operating their show steer deal WELL within their comfort zone. It is like the 12 year old basketball team that averages 6"1" signing up in the bronze division. It is about not challenging ourselves or our children to compete on a stage that is bigger than their comfort zone. It is overkill.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
librarian
Well-known member
Actually the losers were having a lot more fun because they had been racing with each other in the pack. Richie Rich had been 3 laps ahead racing all by himself. The poor kids knew they didn't have a chance unless the rich kid broke down, but they didn't have a chance at most things anyway. Just the world most of us live in.
I would like to apologize for taking this thread off track. There is a point to my rambling.
Is it overkill to spend ten times more than everybody to buy a county fair win? Yes it is.
Is it wrong? It's a gray area. It's not breaking the rules but it sure seems inappropriate but you can't tell people how to spend their money. If this is what they choose to do more power to them. Let's face it someone is always going to do it. It's like that everywhere you go.
Can you change it? Not without getting involved with the county fair politics and it probably wouldn't do any good anyway. Just cause a lot of hard feeling.
On the flip side of this it's no fun to be the one accused of overkill either. Somehow we became "those people" just by tagging the only calf we have for my son to show.
Is it overkill to spend ten times more than everybody to buy a county fair win? Yes it is.
Is it wrong? It's a gray area. It's not breaking the rules but it sure seems inappropriate but you can't tell people how to spend their money. If this is what they choose to do more power to them. Let's face it someone is always going to do it. It's like that everywhere you go.
Can you change it? Not without getting involved with the county fair politics and it probably wouldn't do any good anyway. Just cause a lot of hard feeling.
On the flip side of this it's no fun to be the one accused of overkill either. Somehow we became "those people" just by tagging the only calf we have for my son to show.
SlickTxMaine
Well-known member
Our kids have always entered our local show with the idea of making a profit. We buy the best animal we can, knowing approx. what it will cost to feed it, and the potential sale price in the end. We are trying to teach a life lesson - buy within your means, work as hard as you can, and enjoy your return! But, I understand that is not everyone's philosophy. Some people believe that winning, at any and all cost is what's important. That's their choice. Don't agree with it - but it's their choice. I think my philosophy is more in line with the intent of the FFA and 4-H clubs. Why else would they have the kids complete a record book showing income, expenses and profit??
My gripe is not with the families that choose to spend 3 times the required amount to win a show - it's the families that do this, and the kid never touches the animal until it's time to walk in the ring. I know I'm getting off topic, but had to vent a little!!
My gripe is not with the families that choose to spend 3 times the required amount to win a show - it's the families that do this, and the kid never touches the animal until it's time to walk in the ring. I know I'm getting off topic, but had to vent a little!!
Is it overkill? "yes. Is there anything wrong with it? No. It is part of life, there will always be someone who is able to spend more than others, have more opportunities than others, so on and so forth. You can make rules to try and change it, but the rules never really change the final results, they just change the way you play the game.
We had a family come into county fair with close to 50 grand in steers (they missed state fair registration dead line) so they brought their state fair steers to county fair. They had spent good money on the top three calves: they ruined one, one was a train wreck on his front end, and they other was a calf that could have gone to Denver with 200 more pounds on him and made some noise. That calf was, as we put it at the time, like bringing a Sprint Cup car to the county dirt track. He won easy and should of, the other two calves, about 20,000 grand worth, one did not win his class the other stood reserve black in the 4H division and did not make the final drive. They got beat by $2500 calves, it happens.
As far as what do the other kids learn, well I hope they learn responsibility, time management, work ethic, bookkeeping, money management, and animal husbandry to name a few things.
I want to think my son learned life lessons that help him as he enters the real world. He will graduate at Cal Poly in June and I think the lessons he learned in the nine years of livestock projects helped him while in college and will help him in the work place, more than the 2 times he made the final drive.
We had a family come into county fair with close to 50 grand in steers (they missed state fair registration dead line) so they brought their state fair steers to county fair. They had spent good money on the top three calves: they ruined one, one was a train wreck on his front end, and they other was a calf that could have gone to Denver with 200 more pounds on him and made some noise. That calf was, as we put it at the time, like bringing a Sprint Cup car to the county dirt track. He won easy and should of, the other two calves, about 20,000 grand worth, one did not win his class the other stood reserve black in the 4H division and did not make the final drive. They got beat by $2500 calves, it happens.
As far as what do the other kids learn, well I hope they learn responsibility, time management, work ethic, bookkeeping, money management, and animal husbandry to name a few things.
I want to think my son learned life lessons that help him as he enters the real world. He will graduate at Cal Poly in June and I think the lessons he learned in the nine years of livestock projects helped him while in college and will help him in the work place, more than the 2 times he made the final drive.
rrblack78 said:
This is MY opinion, and also the way that we handle these situations.
Don't take a Major Show Heifer to your County Fair. There is absolutely NOTHING good that can come of that. I don't care if she is the only one you have...don't take her.
Because she is the only one you have does not exempt you from the overkill thing. You have broilers and hogs. Take them.
ifinditfunny
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This is MY opinion, and also the way that we handle these situations.
Don't take a Major Show Heifer to your County Fair. There is absolutely NOTHING good that can come of that. I don't care if she is the only one you have...don't take her.
Because she is the only one you have does not exempt you from the overkill thing. You have broilers and hogs. Take them.
If your kid wants to take the heifer take her. If other people don't like it then that's their problem but what lesson are we teaching our children if we avoid every possible situation where somebody's feelings might get hurt?
Don't take a Major Show Heifer to your County Fair. There is absolutely NOTHING good that can come of that. I don't care if she is the only one you have...don't take her.
Because she is the only one you have does not exempt you from the overkill thing. You have broilers and hogs. Take them.
If your kid wants to take the heifer take her. If other people don't like it then that's their problem but what lesson are we teaching our children if we avoid every possible situation where somebody's feelings might get hurt?
ifinditfunny
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Tallcool1 said:
What's the point in having a show heifer if you can't show her? Every time you take one out you might get beat so?
ifinditfunny
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If we are worried about taking one and getting beat wouldn't this same thing apply to the high dollar steer argument? Soooo we don't take a heifer because she might get beat but, we are complaining because others spend a bunch on steers? Wouldn't that mean the high dollar steers could get beat too?
Ifinditfunny, They do.
Our county fair does a good job of finding judges, but the smaller fair we have a month after that can be quite a trip as far as judges.
If we showed heifers I would not have a problem at the county fair, at the smaller fair I would not be surprised at anything that happened.
Our county fair does a good job of finding judges, but the smaller fair we have a month after that can be quite a trip as far as judges.
If we showed heifers I would not have a problem at the county fair, at the smaller fair I would not be surprised at anything that happened.
ifinditfunny
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I understand things happen and things aren't going to go the way sometimes we think they should but that's a great opportunity to teach the kids. Win humbly lose graciously, maybe. I think it's important to teach the kids that sometimes life happens in ways it shouldn't. Life isn't fair, and this is a great way to teach kids that. But we can't ahelter them entirely either.
Once again, this thing is getting way off track.
The point is, it is a very individual thing. If you feel that it is in the spirit of the game to take a $15,000 steer to your county fair that probably has an average acquisition price of $2,500 then do it.
If you want to have your basketball team continue to full court press even though you are ahead by 40 points then by all means do it.
If you want to put your strongest pitcher on the mound in a game that you are leading by 9 runs, then it is completely within your rights to do so.
And by gosh if you want to take your Major Show Heifer to your piddly little county fair, then you just knock yourself out.
I simply offered my own advice, and shared the way that we personally handle this. I have to look at myself in the mirror each and every day, and all of you have your own mirror. We don't have the same mirror so we all see something different.
The point is, it is a very individual thing. If you feel that it is in the spirit of the game to take a $15,000 steer to your county fair that probably has an average acquisition price of $2,500 then do it.
If you want to have your basketball team continue to full court press even though you are ahead by 40 points then by all means do it.
If you want to put your strongest pitcher on the mound in a game that you are leading by 9 runs, then it is completely within your rights to do so.
And by gosh if you want to take your Major Show Heifer to your piddly little county fair, then you just knock yourself out.
I simply offered my own advice, and shared the way that we personally handle this. I have to look at myself in the mirror each and every day, and all of you have your own mirror. We don't have the same mirror so we all see something different.
