Which Is Best Simmi Bull?

[SEA]

Built right and macho throw monsters(tall flat gangly) grand masters are either good or ugly I think showy wise your options are fat butt or upgrade I think fat butt is probably the more consistent of the two

That statement is irresponsible and absurd as well as inaccurate. It's a prime example why you can't base breeding decisions based on information from this or any other internet forum.

To GONEWEST,

Glad to hear from you again.  Always enjoy your thoughts.  (pop)  I totally understand where you are coming from.  I enjoy Steer Planet and this Beef Forum.  However, I personally know people who have 1. Do not read or quit reading the posts, or 2. Will not post or reply to posts, due to comments and statements made by some patrons of this site.  :'(

My Dad always said "you have to consider the source", in this case, we do not even know the source of the posters, only a little about them, from reading some of their former posts.  To this I say..."You need to glean the grain from the chff", and "Only believe half of what you hear, and less of what you read".  ???

However, sometimes people will give you good, truthful, and valuable informative advice, later, it is usually collaborated by others.  For that I appreciate these posts, and people like GONEWEWST that posts them and help hold people accountable, without just berating or slamming people.  (clapping)

Reading peoples comments on the internet, is no different than listening to them at your Local County Fair, in the Coffee Shop, or at a Local or National Cattlemans event,  (argue) .  People are people and "opinions are just like a@sh*l#s, everybody has one".  (angel)

Reading internet forum sites is sort of like...EPD's, Color advertising photos in a cattle publication, remarks made in a semen distributors catalog, listening to other cattlemen, listening to comments made by the breeder of the bull or cow, visual inspection of the animal yourself, inspecting offspring of the cattle yourself.  They are all tools, all measuring sticks.  Some have more credibility than others.  But, if you research all or most of these "tools", then put together all the info you have gathered, I have found you will normally gain a a pretty good idea of the animal in question.  (thumbsup)

"Everyday is just like a box of chocolates".  Forest Gump  <beer>

 

[Woody]

Well I will give you my $.02 worth of advise.  Dream On.  For what you are describing he has done that for me.  I have used him on some pretty common cows and he ALWAYS made them way better than what they were out of.  Birth weights are good and the offspring are showwy with easy fleshing and usually 5.5 to 6 frame.  I would not use Macho, he has his place in life and this is not one of them.  I have not used the rest of the bulls on your list so I cant offer any advice on them.  Hope this helps.

 

[savaged]

You sure can't beat Grand Masters numbers, top 1% on birth weight, weaning weight, yearly weight and milk. Not to many out there with those type of numbers. I have not seen all of his calves of course, so I'm sure there could be some ugly ones. But have seen alot of nice ones. Plus you can buy his female sexed semen for $35 a straw, just ordered some. I am going to give him a shot on a Heat Wave heifer I have, with an average of 55 to 65 birth weight on his calves, not finding anything any smaller with that type of growth, frame and being homo black. Should get a nice club calf moma with HW and Grand Master genetics together.

Be very careful using grandmaster on heifers. His numbers have changed signifigantly as they were manufactured in the first place.

Agreed.  I had a Grandmaster two weeks ago out of a pure-bred Dream-On that was 85+ lbs.  He is a very nice bull calf but very stout at birth.  Of note, he is also big boned and quite hairy

 

[LostFarmer]

.... Fat Butt is not being used as a serious simmental breeder bull. He may prove everyone wrong but I would first try him AI on some cows before going overboard and flushing to him. I saw the  heifer calf out of Fat Butt at Louisville and she was very nice but she was only one calf. Time will tell and anytime you breed a crossbred to a bull of any breed all you can do is cross your fingers and hope for the best.

I saw that heifer as a baby in the pen with 20 others.  That was just the one that went showing there are 8 others that are pretty darn nice.  That Louisville heifer's mother has been flushed to Fatbutt.  The combination works.  I like that Fatbutt will soften up and deepen the simi genetics. 

 

[CAB]

Anyone around Columbus,Ne had a chance to go see some calves out of Rock Solid?

http://www.bakenhuscattle.com/images/2010/9-24/Rock-Solid.jpg

He's a ful-sib to the Dam of Chopper.

 

[SEA]

Be very careful using grandmaster on heifers. His numbers have changed signifigantly as they were manufactured in the first place.
[/quote]

simmisandcyclones:

Thank you for your concern.  However, this cow is a first calf heifer.  She has already had one calf.  Plus, this breeding is for a flush, the embryoes will be put into mature cows.

 

[SEA]

.... Fat Butt is not being used as a serious simmental breeder bull. He may prove everyone wrong but I would first try him AI on some cows before going overboard and flushing to him. I saw the  heifer calf out of Fat Butt at Louisville and she was very nice but she was only one calf. Time will tell and anytime you breed a crossbred to a bull of any breed all you can do is cross your fingers and hope for the best.
(/quote)

I saw that heifer as a baby in the pen with 20 others.  That was just the one that went showing there are 8 others that are pretty darn nice.  That Louisville heifer's mother has been flushed to Fatbutt.  The combination works.  I like that Fatbutt will soften up and deepen the simi genetics.
(/quote)  

I spoke to a cattleman yesterday that had "some concern", using Fat Butt, onto a "Clubby Bred Cow", (remember she is a Hollywood x WMW dam).  His concern was the possibility of Fat Butt's rear legs being "too straight", and therefore the resulting offspring of the mating being "too post legged", for the production of replacement females.

 

[SEA]

Yes Select Sires, I contacted them and a regional sales rep contacted me and will deliver me the female sexed semen for $35 a straw next month when he is in the area. I'm sure you will have a different regional rep for Select Sires as they have like 20 reps for the whole country.
(quote)

Thanks,

I found and contacted the closet Northstar, Select Sires Representative, to me this morning.  He said he would check the price and availability on Ebony's Grand Master female sexed semen on Monday.

Also, he thought they only have the female sexed semen available in 2M units. 

After talking to him, I phoned my ET Vet.  His does not like to use less than the 5M unit female sexed semen when flushing.  However, he has done it previously.  When he has done it, he said he has experienced mixed results getting fertile embryos.  He also breeds with 4-5 units of female sexed semen when only having the 2M to breed with.  He also recommended when flushing a cow for the first time, especially a "first calf heifer", to use conventional semen.  He also does not recommend flushing open heifers, he likes them to always have one calf first, although he has done it in the past, when a customer wanted to... 

 

[SEA]

Well I will give you my $.02 worth of advise.  Dream On.  For what you are describing he has done that for me.  I have used him on some pretty common cows and he ALWAYS made them way better than what they were out of.  Birth weights are good and the offspring are showwy with easy fleshing and usually 5.5 to 6 frame.  I would not use Macho, he has his place in life and this is not one of them.  I have not used the rest of the bulls on your list so I cant offer any advice on them.  Hope this helps.

Woody:

I agree with you on 3C Macho.  He has now been removed from "the short list".  Too straight on his rear legs and not quite deep ribbed and soggy enough.

As for Dream On, I know he is a very good bull.  I'm just not a big fan.  Truly, I like some of his sons better.  His history for growth and maternal traits are a little below what I am looking for to breed a "clubby cross cow" with the goal of producing replacement females.

I am also removing the Simmental bulls, Ollie and Built Right from my "short list " at this time.

 

[Mueller Show Cattle]

Yes Select Sires, I contacted them and a regional sales rep contacted me and will deliver me the female sexed semen for $35 a straw next month when he is in the area. I'm sure you will have a different regional rep for Select Sires as they have like 20 reps for the whole country.
(quote)

Thanks,

I found and contacted the closet Northstar, Select Sires Representative, to me this morning.  He said he would check the price and availability on Ebony's Grand Master female sexed semen on Monday.

Also, he thought they only have the female sexed semen available in 2M units. 

After talking to him, I phoned my ET Vet.  His does not like to use less than the 5M unit female sexed semen when flushing.  However, he has done it previously.  When he has done it, he said he has experienced mixed results getting fertile embryos.  He also breeds with 4-5 units of female sexed semen when only having the 2M to breed with.  He also recommended when flushing a cow for the first time, especially a "first calf heifer", to use conventional semen.  He also does not recommend flushing open heifers, he likes them to always have one calf first, although he has done it in the past, when a customer wanted to... 

Thanks for the information, Good information to consider when flushing.  (clapping)

 

[gary89]

Just got home from an open show in Fort Dodge, Iowa and saw an excellent Built Right heifer win the Simmental division. Excellent heifer that really moves, super deep, and feminine. I would strongly rethink crossing him off your list. I have 5 of them just over a week old and I am liking mine as well. The heifers are very feminine and look like they will be nice. Just my $.02, good luck.

 

[SSIMMENTALS]

I'm going to pipe in on Grandmaster. I like the bull. In my opinion he works really well on complete, solid bodied females with a  good shoulder and neck. He will definately add the butt, top, hair, and bone. I also think he puts a really soft cowy look on his calves. I love a good sound rear leg, and feel he will put it on those females that are desirable to a bit on the straight side. He also  added hair for us  on a calf out of a PB Shorty. My concerns with him would be breeding to a cow with a bit of a shoulder, one that had a little too much rear leg set, or one that wasn't smooth made. He's homo polled, so if she carries horns he should make your life a lot easier.  I think he would work for you.  I also agree with the Built Right crowd. I see him as a bull who most always sires really correct cattle from a skeletal standpoint. I love their angles and elegance. He also won't bump that frame score and you can likely get that highly sought after blaze face. I don't think he throws quit as much power as some, but I would assume that isn't a problem with your cow. If you cow carries a red gene, you can get some reds (which I like), and he has the capability to allow some extra white to slip out. I'm not terribly crazy about Upgrade (not that I dislike him, I just do not trust him), Fat Butt intrigues me to no end but I'm going to sit on that one for a year or two. I'm going to go old school on you and throw out Momentum. He'll keep the frame down and add an extremely sowy female look. He can throw leather on the wrong cow(shoulder not as big of a problem), but if shes really good necked, you could very well just get the extreme softness, soundness, and completeness he offers w/o the leather.

 

[SEA]

Thanks for all the posts I have been getting!!  They have been very informative.  It also sounds as if I am on the right trail.  It seems there are many people whom have good opinions on Fat Butt, NLC Upgrade, Built Right, and Ebony's Grand Master.  I think all four of these bulls come to the head of the class for PB Simmi Bulls.  Each is good in his own right, and each is a little different.  <beer>  I shall not only flush to one of these bulls, but I will sample at least two others, and breed to some of my other "good" cows for natural calves.

 

[Gators Rule]

For what you are describing, I would look no farther than Dream On.  Personally, I think his phenotype is perfectly designed for producing females that will eventually produce club calves.  Agree with you on removing Macho.  While I like Macho, I wouldn't use him in the situation you're describing.   

also, depending on the conformation of the cow, I might consider adding a splash more WMW with Sheriff Taylor.

Best of luck.  Truth be known, you could choose any of a number of bulls and end up with a diamond! 

 

[SEA]

F.Y.I. - She had an extremely fance I-Back heifer calf, that we think allot of.  <cowboy>

 

[SEA]

Thaks for all your responses, information, experiences, positive statements, and helpfulness!  (clapping)

 

[hereford]

When you flush with sexed semen definitely use the 5.0 million dose straws, but also use 4 total straws. Use 2 the first breeding and then 2 straws the next. You need a total of 20 million total cells when flushing with sexed semen.  <rock>

 

[SEA]

Thank you all very much for your opinions and advice!!  So many good bulls to choose from.  Many could work well on our cow.  Won't know now until we have actual calves.  IMO  This was a very good post.  Good number of responses and positive comments.

Homework is done.  We have decided to breed to NLC Upgrade. 

Reasons for our choice:

1.  He has just become available at a reasonable price this spring through CRI Genex.
2.  I like Upgrade's breeders Christensen and NLC, are long time and respected Simmental Breeders.
3.  I like Upgrade's proven sire "Ollie", many positives about him.
4.  Obtained info from Simmental cattleman that have used him, and have calves on the ground out of him this year, and will use more semen on him next year.

Thanks again for your support!

 

[flacowman]

I don't mind hijacking the post so much now but what are y'alls thought on breeding a Chill factorxangus heifer to grandmaster?  Seems like that would be a truly maternal powerhouse calf if there ever was one

 

[CAB]

Thank you all very much for your opinions and advice!!  So many good bulls to choose from.  Many could work well on our cow.   Won't know now until we have actual calves.  IMO  This was a very good post.  Good number of responses and positive comments.

Homework is done.  We have decided to breed to NLC Upgrade. 

Reasons for our choice:

1.  He has just become available at a reasonable price this spring through CRI Genex.
2.  I like Upgrade's breeders Christensen and NLC, are long time and respected Simmental Breeders.
3.  I like Upgrade's proven sire "Ollie", many positives about him.
4.  Obtained info from Simmental cattleman that have used him, and have calves on the ground out of him this year, and will use more semen on him next year.

Thanks again for your support!

This kind of came from left field after following this thread and the Upgrade saga!!! Have there been a lot of good/great Upgrade cattle surfacing? Just wondering what everyone has been seeing/hearing.