Which Is Best Simmi Bull?

[kattleluver]

Since You all seem to be Simmi bull intelligent, I have a question, and need help! I have a Hairy Bear x angus 1st calf heifer bred to Goldmine. Has anyone had calves out of him... What did you think ?? I'll have a calf on the ground soon but don't really know what to expect...

 

[husker1]

Thank you all very much for your opinions and advice!!  So many good bulls to choose from.  Many could work well on our cow.   Won't know now until we have actual calves.  IMO  This was a very good post.  Good number of responses and positive comments.

Homework is done.  We have decided to breed to NLC Upgrade. 

Reasons for our choice:

1.  He has just become available at a reasonable price this spring through CRI Genex.
2.  I like Upgrade's breeders Christensen and NLC, are long time and respected Simmental Breeders.
3.  I like Upgrade's proven sire "Ollie", many positives about him.
4.  Obtained info from Simmental cattleman that have used him, and have calves on the ground out of him this year, and will use more semen on him next year.

Thanks again for your support!

This kind of came from left field after following this thread and the Upgrade saga!!! Have there been a lot of good/great Upgrade cattle surfacing? Just wondering what everyone has been seeing/hearing.

We haven't had any born here yet, but early reports on the bull last spring were across the board.  Seemed as they matured, most people liked them.  We will try him for sure this year....he's in the tank already.

I disregarded Upgade on this original post as the poster wanted a proven bull...not sure if we can call Upgrade that when no daughters are calving-age even yet...but he's heading the right direction!

 

[SEA]

Husker1:  Sorry about the statement "proven".  I think we need a definition of the word proven.  I do not mean this with any disrespect.

Of my short list of bulls mentioned, NLC Upgrade, Fat Butt, and Ebony's Grandmaster, I do not believe they have sired heifers/cows that now have calves at there side.  I suppose I have a tendency to sometimes to use the word proven as a bull with one or two calf crops on the ground to analyze.  It take three years to four years from when a yearly bull actually has heifers/cows in production, or a bull son in production, to truly call him proven, in the true sense of the word.  Thank you.

Still not sure if NLC Upgarde is the one because of all the "Mixed" comments I have heard also. My questions on him are...

1.  Does he have enough Milk to make good replacement Mama cows?  His EPD's for milk are quite low.  Then again so are Meyer 734"s and some people love him.

2.  He has a very low EPD for Calving Ease or MCE, what will that do, or what will that mean for my replacement daughters?

 

[SEA]

To GONEWEST:

Thanks for your letter.  In response, I sent you an email.  Please let me know if you received it.

Thanks,

SEA

 

[CAB]

Husker1:  Sorry about the statement "proven".  I think we need a definition of the word proven.  I do not mean this with any disrespect.

Of my short list of bulls mentioned, NLC Upgrade, Fat Butt, and Ebony's Grandmaster, I do not believe they have sired heifers/cows that now have calves at there side.  I suppose I have a tendency to sometimes to use the word proven as a bull with one or two calf crops on the ground to analyze.  It take three years to four years from when a yearly bull actually has heifers/cows in production, or a bull son in production, to truly call him proven, in the true sense of the word.  Thank you.

Still not sure if NLC Upgarde is the one because of all the "Mixed" comments I have heard also. My questions on him are...

1.  Does he have enough Milk to make good replacement Mama cows?  His EPD's for milk are quite low.  Then again so are Meyer 734"s and some people love him.

2.  He has a very low EPD for Calving Ease or MCE, what will that do, or what will that mean for my replacement daughters?

SEA your comment about CE & CEM brings up a question for me. How much weight if any do PPL in general & PB breeders  put on these values? Do potential bull buying customers look @ and make any hard fast decisions about buying a bull based on these 2 #s in particular? Thanks for any opinions.

 

[Ag biz]

I have one Rock Solid bull calf  and I know of another breeder with a couple. They are good so far. He will throw a blaze face. Their are so many new simmy bulls its hard to say which ones will take off and be the next great one. Rock solid can do the job if your looking for good replacements and possible show heifers.

 

[CCW]

Upgrade looks to work best to add growth, depth, and spring of rib. Bulls seem to be better than heifers from what I've seen. They do seem to get better with age. I wouldn't worry about milk EPDs when breeding to simmys because most of them milk pretty good.

CE epd means they will come out easy and I generally look for a very proven bull with a 9 or higher for heifers.I don't pay much attention to BW epd and put more emphasis on CE.

MCE epd means how easy will their daughters have calves.

Sometimes bulls can throw narrow hipped calves that have good direct CE epd, but when the daughters go to calve they have horrible maternal CE because their hips are too small.

Goldmine throws pretty profiling calves and is a great heifer bull. They often don't grow very good or have enough mass but can make them very fancy.

 

[jackpotcattle]

Husker1:  Sorry about the statement "proven".  I think we need a definition of the word proven.  I do not mean this with any disrespect.

Of my short list of bulls mentioned, NLC Upgrade, Fat Butt, and Ebony's Grandmaster, I do not believe they have sired heifers/cows that now have calves at there side.  I suppose I have a tendency to sometimes to use the word proven as a bull with one or two calf crops on the ground to analyze.  It take three years to four years from when a yearly bull actually has heifers/cows in production, or a bull son in production, to truly call him proven, in the true sense of the word.  Thank you.

Still not sure if NLC Upgarde is the one because of all the "Mixed" comments I have heard also. My questions on him are...

1.  Does he have enough Milk to make good replacement Mama cows?  His EPD's for milk are quite low.  Then again so are Meyer 734"s and some people love him.

2.  He has a very low EPD for Calving Ease or MCE, what will that do, or what will that mean for my replacement daughters?

His WW and YW numbers took a jump and I believe are about the highest of any Simmental bull, for this reason with just one calf crop and no daughters in production it tends to have a negative effect on MCE Milk and CE because typically high performing growth bulls are not the most maternal.

Like Husker said (who I have shared my opinion with many times) the calves might not look the best as young babies, but go and look at them the 1st of Aug. and you won't believe they are the same calves! I have seen close to 100 calves out of him and I personally like both the heifers and bulls equally. There have been a lot of Upgrade bulls selling in these online sales and all seem to look like the ones I have seen in person. They won't all be great ones, but that is just the nature of the business.

 

[GONEWEST]

SEA your comment about CE & CEM brings up a question for me. How much weight if any do PPL in general & PB breeders  put on these values? Do potential bull buying customers look @ and make any hard fast decisions about buying a bull based on these 2 #s in particular? Thanks for any opinions.

I don't know how much emphasis people REALLY put  any EPD. But I know that the ability to have the largest calf possible  without difficulty is the single most important trait to profitability in a cow calf operation. Assuming of course the cow has the ability to get bred. You cant come up with a plausible scenario in which "the more they weigh the more they pay" isn't a truism. And the bigger they are at birth the heavier they are when you sell them or if you have a target weight the sooner they will reach it. So the ability to have a growthy calf without problems and not have any effects from dyastocia that causes breeding difficulty is very important.

In the case of the original post I believe it is very important because he wanted to make cows that produce clubby show calves. Clubby calves can tend to be a little chunky and large when born. If you have a herd of great looking cows that cant have calves what good is it?

 

[SEA]

SEA your comment about CE & CEM brings up a question for me. How much weight if any do PPL in general & PB breeders  put on these values? Do potential bull buying customers look @ and make any hard fast decisions about buying a bull based on these 2 #s in particular? Thanks for any opinions.

I don't know how much emphasis people REALLY put  any EPD. But I know that the ability to have the largest calf possible  without difficulty is the single most important trait to profitability in a cow calf operation. Assuming of course the cow has the ability to get bred. You cant come up with a plausible scenario in which "the more they weigh the more they pay" isn't a truism. And the bigger they are at birth the heavier they are when you sell them or if you have a target weight the sooner they will reach it. So the ability to have a growthy calf without problems and not have any effects from dyastocia that causes breeding difficulty is very important.

In the case of the original post I believe it is very important because he wanted to make cows that produce clubby show calves. Clubby calves can tend to be a little chunky and large when born. If you have a herd of great looking cows that cant have calves what good is it?

I did try to resend that email to you.  This time in PM form.  I hope you received it.