Would you fudge on age?

[red]

Since the fudging on BW was so interesting I thought we'd try age. If you had a calf born towards the end of December would you make it the next years model? Or if it was right at the end of the month would you bump it a month? Or is it not a problem to bump several months? For you big breeders do you know all the ages at all?

Red

 

[box6rranch]

This is one of the hardest topics I think that there is at least in the show cattle industry. I think they only way that they ever are going to get to the truth it is by going off of weights for heifer and bull shows.

 

[showsteerdlux]

Going by weights leads to another whole set of problems. There are many ways to change the actual weight of a calf, and you also have to remember some of these heifers grow faster than others. FWIW unless its market keep the weight issue out of the picture.
Going by hip heights may work in some cases.

 

[red]

also scrotum size! we showed a bull at NAILE where half the class had ones that were twice the size as the rest. Can't tell me they weren't overage!

Red

 

[red]

(lol) also remember that only you see how you voted! So if you push them back no one will know but you. unless of course you tell!  :

Red

 

[box6rranch]

Going by weights leads to another whole set of problems. There are many ways to change the actual weight of a calf, and you also have to remember some of these heifers grow faster than others. FWIW unless its market keep the weight issue out of the picture.
Going by hip heights may work in some cases.

True, you can definitely change the weight but what if a weigh back was enforced? Hip height is a good idea as long as it's done at the shows by impartial folks. Have seen shows where you mail in the hip height info. Get to the show and the class line ups look ridiculous.

 

[showsteerdlux]

No  haven't seen hip heights being mailed in, and the thought of that seems to be stupid in the 1st place. I mean come on, thats like mailing in weights. On the weigh back deal, I am against this. If someone can shrink there calf and get the weights back on them and the calf still look good, so be it. I view that as a part of the game and if you can do it do it.

 

[Dusty]

I've been told that on brithdate you cheat one month to win your class, two months to win the division, and three months to win the show.  3 months is probably pretty extreme.  But if you don't cheat a month or two you're going to be showing against the calves that did.

 

[justintime]

With everyone talking moderation in frame, and smaller mature size, does it pay to cheat one ages, especially in making them younger than they actually are? There was a day when the bigger they were... the better. I think we are in an era now where frame is not as important as some other traits.

Three years ago, I had am ET heifer born on December 27th. I registered her as December 27th. I found it absolutely amazing how many breeders said to me that I was crazy. The heifer was pretty good and had muskox like hair. You could have made her any shape you wanted with a set of clippers. Many breeders said " you are nuts.. she could have been in the hunt for Calf Champion at the fall shows. I have always thought " if I can't believe an animals birth date, what else can't I believe about it?"

 

[austin]

I'm not much of a rebel. 

 

[ShowmanQ]

I have been struggling with this issue all year. We had a pretty good little Shorthorn Plus heifer last year, born the last day of April in the early evening. Being she was born on the last day of April, that's exactly what her papers say. A nice family bought her and are showing her quite a bit, and let me tell you, it is sooo frustrating showing an April in an April class full of Marches. Every now and then, I will get someone who asks "Why did'nt you just register her as  a May 13t, she was only 6 hours off?" Well...she was not born in May, plain and simple. Thus, the honest guy get's the shaft. (lol)

 

[box6rranch]

With everyone talking moderation in frame, and smaller mature size, does it pay to cheat one ages, especially in making them younger than they actually are? There was a day when the bigger they were... the better. I think we are in an era now where frame is not as important as some other traits.

Three years ago, I had am ET heifer born on December 27th. I registered her as December 27th. I found it absolutely amazing how many breeders said to me that I was crazy. The heifer was pretty good and had muskox like hair. You could have made her any shape you wanted with a set of clippers. Many breeders said " you are nuts.. she could have been in the hunt for Calf Champion at the fall shows. I have always thought " if I can't believe an animals birth date, what else can't I believe about it?"

I don't believe things are really changing from the bigger the better mentality. When was the last time you attended a big show? I've sat and watched  our heifers in their classes and if we lied about their ages they could have easily fit in classes two or three back with later birth dates.

 

[red]

how about a calf born on leap year? where would you put it? Most shows olny go to 2/28

Red  ???

 

[HVNR]

Very Frustrating Topic.... To show and compete as a calf can you actually compete if you don't fudge????? We always tell ourselves that we will catch up later in the summer as they mature, but I have to say it gets harder and harder to do this.

So how often do we think pastures are checked for calves, once every two weeks, once a month ? I have seen several that must not have been found for a couple of months?

 

[Show Dad]

how about a calf born on leap year? where would you put it? Most shows olny go to 2/28

Red  ???

I'd wait 4 years and show it as a yearling! ;D

 

[Cattledog]

With everyone talking moderation in frame, and smaller mature size, does it pay to cheat one ages, especially in making them younger than they actually are? There was a day when the bigger they were... the better. I think we are in an era now where frame is not as important as some other traits.

Three years ago, I had am ET heifer born on December 27th. I registered her as December 27th. I found it absolutely amazing how many breeders said to me that I was crazy. The heifer was pretty good and had muskox like hair. You could have made her any shape you wanted with a set of clippers. Many breeders said " you are nuts.. she could have been in the hunt for Calf Champion at the fall shows. I have always thought " if I can't believe an animals birth date, what else can't I believe about it?"

I am with you on the moderation of frame.  I have a hiefer that I am showing right now that I wish was a February instead of a March!  I worry she is going to shoot up on me and I am a little uncomfortable with her stature the way it is right now.

I have never moved a Birth Date to date.  My Grandfather told me if you start to fudge a day or two here and there it will turn into fudging a month before you know it.  The later shows are usually a tell tale sign of who the cheaters are.  When the calf is huge as a baby and then everything else starts to catch up it always has me wondering if there has been a date adjustment.

 

[ELBEE]

We took a bull calf to Loisville a couple years ago (just for fun), the main reason was to get him back East. The Knight boys decided to drag him in the ring (against my better judgment), but what the heck. Last place, of course, but the judge did spend an incredible amount of time looking him over. The point I want make is; there were calves in that class that, if you did the math on their numbers, that had over 5 lb. WDA since birth. Am I the only one that observes these things? 

I'm afraid some guys balance the numbers before they even look at the calves. Just look at the auctions on RFD, infinite bulls through the ring with perfect numbers. Thar's what I watch when I want to take'o nap.

 

[Rocky Hill Simmental]

I'm honest when it comes to birthdates. At all the shows I go to, the breeding stock have to be born by September 1 (9-1-2007 is the cut off this year). I showed a yearling heifer born 8-26-2007 in 2008 but she'll be too old by just a couple of days to show again in 2009. Since she's too old, I'm not going to show her. 

I think some people lie though.. either that or they can get their calves to grow mighty fast - especially those 6 month olds that are already bigger than the majority of the yearlings. 

 

[box6rranch]

We showed our 08/07 bull at NWSS. Only ours and another one in the class. The other one was younger and outweighed ours by 400 pounds, please.........................................

 

[Jill]

how about a calf born on leap year? where would you put it? Most shows olny go to 2/28

Red  ???

I'd wait 4 years and show it as a yearling! ;D

You must be showing in Arkansas! (clapping)