American Muscle Pic

[ELBEE]

I think the discussion has been interesting.  there is no "tightness" on the board, just a personality that comments don't get pulled because someone has strong words.  i like the comments about functional cattle for their location, which seems to get lost in the show steer world.  if we aren't breeding show steers to excel at carcass as well, well, i guess i am confused.   

What are some regional difference in show steers other than ear, or does everyone have to sift through all the fuzzy cripples and at the show, watch the butts move like bee bonnets when they walk?  Though i have mixed feelings about slick shows, i know i don't like the overemphasis on fuzz.

to me, a show steer should be one that excels at carcass, but has some conformation faults, perhaps fit in the middle sexual phenotype wise, otherwise he would have been a bull.  it seems sad we are breeding cows to be more like steers and breeding bulls to look more like females.  i wonder what the long term consequences are if we are not checking for long term fertility.  what is the age range of a bull going sterile after intense collection. 

It is a proved fact that. "The more masculine the bull, the more feminine his daughters." Knabe I agree that the show steer belongs somewhere in the middle. What I don't agree with is a separate set of cows (and bulls) for club steers, and replacement heifers

 

[red]

I get sick for a couple of days &  my gosh!
Please guys, the whole thing is that we are allowed to have different opinions on cattle. I like Scott's bull but he won't work for everyone. I'm sure GoCane also has some great cattle.
Let's please stop the personal attacks & go back to what we do best, talk cattle!
I'm heading back to bed but please son't dissapoint old Red here!!!


Red

 

[farmboy]

I SECOND THAT!  ;D

 

[itk]

This whole Matt bashing deal has gone to far so to even things out here we go. We sent one of our customers to Jr. Nationals last year with a calf that was better then my fitting abilities. So to find a fitter that would already be their I called a friend who trades allot of calves out that way if he could find a fitter for us. My friend called me back in a few days and said that Matt would fit for us out there. On show day Matt and his crew showed up to fit the calf and knocked out as good a fit job as I have seen in about fifteen minutes. I asked him how much we owed him and he said not to worry about it. I understand this is just my one isolated incident but if this is how he screws over all his customers sign me up. Needless to say I was very impressed that he and his crew took time out of their busy day to give a free clip job to some people they had never met. I don't breed my cows clubby but if I ever wanted to I would definitely consider one of his bulls first I always try to help out those who help me no matter how small the gesture is.

 

[cowz]

Thanks itk....I agree 100 %.  The cattle business is created of a universe of different people with different goals in mind.  What is important is what truly is important to you and your operation.

 

[red]

To be prefectly honest, I was very pleased that Phil came & looked my Cherry bomb heifer over 3 different times at the Expo. He's still in touch w/ me on her.

Red

 

[red]

Phil & Matt Lautner.

 

[knabe]

To be prefectly honest, I was very pleased that Phil came & looked my Cherry bomb heifer over 3 different times at the Expo. He's still in touch w/ me on her.


good comment Red.  I don't even remotely know him, but he and his company seem to respond to customer demands, which is good.  in spite of his past association with distribution of carrier bulls, if the market demands their reduced deployment, a good capitalist will adjust.  There's always that association with the carriers and some won't budge, but he's definately got skills i don't have.

 

[garybob]

CB-3  You go ahead and do what you said in this post and let me know how it works.  SJ ought to put you on his payroll.  You probably have on an "American Muscle" hat right now, don't you?

Where do you go to get a hat? I'd like three, please. And, by the way, what defines good customers with good cows?  Lastly, I don't live in Eagle Pass, or, Texas, anymore, and I stand by my description of the Ag-Ed system in Texas. I just don't think the vasst majority of the Ag Teachers down there are in school enough days of the year to manage a totally complete program of instruction. You guys are to be commended for your fiercely competetive showing and judging programs, but, Man, what about the rest of the kids without the financial backing to participate? I feel they are being left out. The most they get is the Hunter's Education training. Perhaps I should take into consideration the fact that you guys feel the pressure to perform, or you won't keep your jobs long enough to pay off your student loans, but, my complaint, I guess, is with the whole system, and, not with you personally.

Peace,

garybob

 

[red]

Gary bob! I'm surprised at you of all people! You get upset when  Arkansas people are all lumped into  one group.Yet you are putting him the same group as all the is wrong w/ Texas vo-ag? How is the world do you get to that point? Please enough, I thought we had stopped it.

Red

 

[DL]

This whole Matt bashing deal has gone to far so to even things out here we go. We sent one of our customers to Jr. Nationals last year with a calf that was better then my fitting abilities. So to find a fitter that would already be their I called a friend who trades allot of calves out that way if he could find a fitter for us. My friend called me back in a few days and said that Matt would fit for us out there. On show day Matt and his crew showed up to fit the calf and knocked out as good a fit job as I have seen in about fifteen minutes. I asked him how much we owed him and he said not to worry about it. I understand this is just my one isolated incident but if this is how he screws over all his customers sign me up. Needless to say I was very impressed that he and his crew took time out of their busy day to give a free clip job to some people they had never met. I don't breed my cows clubby but if I ever wanted to I would definitely consider one of his bulls first I always try to help out those who help me no matter how small the gesture is.

OK so now I get it - nobody is bashing the people - it is the act of omission that I find so disheartening - they may have done great by you - I am glad; glad they looked at Red's heifer too, but I am bothered by the lack of honesty regarding TH and PHA status of the bulls they are promoting. I see it as a description of a problem I see in their advertising campaign - if that is bashing them then somebodies skin is pretty thin...They made a business decision to selectively list free bulls and not list carrier status - their decision - I think the omission of information says a lot about their business - it may or may not say something about them - leave that to you to decide - if we can't discuss how people advertise things we are suppose to want to buy without being accused of bashing - then it may be time to close the door. I am with you on one thing itk - I try to help people who help me out - but  I also try to help people who go out of their way to honestly represent what they are selling....

 

[cowz]

Back to the American Muscle topic.......SJCC, how are YOU planning on marketing this bull?

 

[sjcattleco]

Well I am taking an ad out in the Shorthorn Country in July!!  probably will hit the Showbox or the NLE mags depends on how much $$$ is generated.... He is on my website.. On showsteers.com and my link on CC.com

I plan to have him at the Ohio State Farm Science Review....on dispaly at my tent.....

I have a question to pose to everyone else

do you think I ought to sell the semen in packages only or just list the semen at a set price  like $25 / unit and then offer breeding shares where you get bulk discounts and breaks on  cert prices  and listed in the advertising  if you buy the shares...

BTW Leveldale Shorthorns purchased a 100 unit share to get the ball rolling..

 

[shortyjock89]

Well I am taking an ad out in the Shorthorn Country in July!!  probably will hit the Showbox or the NLE mags depends on how much $$$ is generated.... He is on my website.. On showsteers.com and my link on CC.com

I plan to have him at the Ohio State Farm Science Review....on dispaly at my tent.....

I have a question to pose to everyone else

do you think I ought to sell the semen in packages only or just list the semen at a set price  like $25 / unit and then offer breeding shares where you get bulk discounts and breaks on  cert prices  and listed in the advertising  if you buy the shares...

BTW Leveldale Shorthorns purchased a 100 unit share to get the ball rolling..

SJCC- I prefer to just buy straws of semen, not in package deals.  I'm a small breeder though.  It depends on how big the semen packages are.  If you are trying to sell lots of semen to big breeders, semen packages  and breeding shares are the way to go.  I like to try a bull on just a few cows, and then if I like what happens, then I buy the package. If I were you, I would do all of the above.  Offer package deals with a discount for bulk purchasers, sell the straws individually, and offer breeding shares if you wish to do so.  I think the bull speaks for himself, and if people like what they see, they will buy semen whether it be in a package deal or not.

 

[itk]

Well I am taking an ad out in the Shorthorn Country in July!!  probably will hit the Showbox or the NLE mags depends on how much $$$ is generated.... He is on my website.. On showsteers.com and my link on CC.com

I plan to have him at the Ohio State Farm Science Review....on dispaly at my tent.....

I have a question to pose to everyone else

do you think I ought to sell the semen in packages only or just list the semen at a set price  like $25 / unit and then offer breeding shares where you get bulk discounts and breaks on  cert prices  and listed in the advertising  if you buy the shares...

BTW Leveldale Shorthorns purchased a 100 unit share to get the ball rolling..


I always will say sell it by the straw. I remember a add that Schrags had along time ago that said, "We think so much of our bulls we sell semen by the straw." To me people who sell semen in packages only are afraid of their bull being a bust. To me semen packages are a way of hedging your bet, sure you might not make as much money as if you sold it by the straw but you also are guaranteed a better chance of at least getting your money back. To me it takes more confidence in your animal and more of a gambling spirit to sell by the straw but those are qualities that I would look for in someone I would buy semen from. You also need to remember that the average shorthorn breeder has something like 8 cows so if you make the packages to big you will lose allot of potential customers. However I think a volume or commercial discount would be a great idea.

 

[sjcattleco]

Well if someone wants a package they will be listed in the ads PLUS I was thinking of a money back gaurentee if you don't like the calves you get your money back!!  return unused semen and register no calves and you get a refund!!!

 

[shortyjock89]

You also need to remember that the average shorthorn breeder has something like 8 cows so if you make the packages to big you will lose allot of potential customers. However I think a volume or commercial discount would be a great idea.

[/quote]

Yep, only 15 cows here!  Good thing we focus on quality, not quantity.

 

[DL]

You also need to remember that the average shorthorn breeder has something like 8 cows so if you make the packages to big you will lose allot of potential customers. However I think a volume or commercial discount would be a great idea.

Yep, only 15 cows here!  Good thing we focus on quality, not quantity.
[/quote]

SJ - I agree with SJ89 - I wouldn't buy a package - but I would buy straws......

 

[chambero]

Ooh, this one did get unexpectedly testy!  I hadn't followed this one in a while.

I really don't know much about shorthorns, but most people trying to raise show cattle that haven't owned many bulls really don't know what a real bull is supposed to look like.  I know what our herd bulls look like and the results we get out of their calves.  AM looks to me like a good stout Shorthorn bull worth trying.

There is a lot of science to our business - and a lot of guesswork too.  I've had legitimate steer jocks who are good people and sell lots of good calves leave calves in our pasture that went on to win breed championships at Texas majors.  I had another guy (who didn't know so much) tell me how sorry the sire of one of those calves was (one of our herd bulls) during a visit at the end of winter.  I don't think he'd seen a bull on native pasture at the end of a season he'd bred 50 cows.  In my opinion you have to find good people you trust and trust their recommendations to a large extent. 

Ag teachers anywhere in this country are a really hard working bunch for the most part.  In Texas (probably everywhere else also) they are a very tight knit group.  To a large extent, you aren't going to sell many showcalves without having connections with them.  Unfortunately, many (not all) expect a cut if they send their students to you for animals.  There is a lot of resentment from folks who have been on both ends of those deals.  A few teachers have lost jobs who've tried that stunt on the wrong people.  A lot of them do work a lot of extra hours for low pay and I can see where they need ways to augment their income especially if they are going "above and beyond".  Plenty of them don't know two cents about breeding cattle though.  Plenty wouldn't know a good steer if you gave it to them.  There are lots of really good ones that can pass on a lot of practical knowledge also. 

Our local ag program may not be as good as many when it comes to showing, but they turn out a bunch of kids that can darn sure judge pastures and hay - which is pretty useful in the long run.  I wish my teacher had taught me that kind of stuff. 

 

[sjcattleco]

yea it got a little hairy there for a day or sooo.....but you will have that... (welcome).. you know that internal filter  most of us have can sometimes go from 200 microns to 200 inches when all you are looking at is a faceless flat screen.... and if you are just completely wrong then it makes it worse!!!!!  (lol)

here are a few more questions.. do most people buy 10 straws on a new bull or 3?? Shipping is the same....

What is a fair deal on certs? I have to make sure that the larger buyers if there is any more  do get a better deal... If a shareholder gets certs priced at 10 to 15 dollars is it unreasonable to ask say $40 for a cert from a person that just bought 5 straws? is $40 or $50 too much if the calf is good enough to keep and register?