Crooked Rear Feet

[Okotoks]

Here is a rear shot of the legs.  The feet are the onlly part of the animal that is affected at this time.  She is alive and well and gets around fine--no mobility issues.

I looked at the photos from the other post and those examples are way worse that this calf.

I will pull some hair on the calf.  She is an ET and the donor dam was hit by lightning in July so there is no way to get any DNA.  Dam's pedigree is HooDoo Crook X Strictly Business X Nuf Said.

PTR - rear view - suspicious of DS - a condition with variable presentation but affects only the lower rear leg - ear notch or purple top tube would be better than hair if you can do it - thanks

We had Dr. Beever give a presentation at one of our CSA meetings and he discussed how he had found two separate mutations for TH. If some of these cattle are unrelated could this also be the case with DS and wouldn't that make it harder to pinpoint?

 

[knabe]

We had Dr. Beever give a presentation at one of our CSA meetings and he discussed how he had found two separate mutations for TH. If some of these cattle are unrelated could this also be the case with DS and wouldn't that make it harder to pinpoint?

someone has been paying attention.

remember, we need to keep these defects under wraps.  it's in the best interest of the cattle industry.

 

[DL]

We had Dr. Beever give a presentation at one of our CSA meetings and he discussed how he had found two separate mutations for TH. If some of these cattle are unrelated could this also be the case with DS and wouldn't that make it harder to pinpoint?

Yeah the TH thing was pretty interesting - a calf with TH but his dam tested negative for the Improver mutation. After investigation it turned out that the bull Outcast had a larger mutation in the same are of the gene and the dam of this TH calf was an Outcast daughter - the resulting dead TH calf is known as a compound heterozygote as it has the condition but it resulted from 2 different mutant alleles at the same locus. So the answer to your question is maybe  but the bottom line is we need more samples from affected calves...

 

[wyatt]

I have seen a few ai bulls with this condition holy smoke i believe had it on one foot were it was crooked on the bottom  dont quote me on this i could remember wrong but one of goddards new bulls did this too  :-\

 

[Telos]

I have seen a few ai bulls with this condition holy smoke i believe had it on one foot were it was crooked on the bottom  dont quote me on this i could remember wrong but one of goddards new bulls did this too  :-\

WB ShowCattle, I think this is interesting that you say this about Holysmoke.  That guy could really produce a very stout calf and I could never understand why he did not get used more.  There might be something other then Shorthorn genetics causing this.  Heat Wave goes back to Holysmoke as well.

 

[wyatt]

Honestly i liked the bull and still do might even use him some day he was very powerful i dont think all his calves will be like that just like heat wave he doesnt throw a cripple every time

 

[Telos]

Honestly i liked the bull and still do might even use him some day he was very powerful i dont think all his calves will be like that just like heat wave he doesnt throw a cripple every time

??? . 

 

[Telos]

Bulls that were sampled like Daines Holysmoke and DJ Caesar which was out of a Holysmoke cow sired some really good offspring. I sometimes question these sires because they appear to have been dropped quickly by other breeders.  Was there a hind foot problem that got swept under the carpet? I don't know, but it certainly raises a red flag.  Does anyone have any experience with these sires that can offer enough numbers to be objective?

I have seen some calves (a total of only four) with this issue and there seems to be a common denominator when I look up pedigrees. 

 

[knabe]

Power plant and or someone else?

 

[frostback]

Dosnt JPJ have Maine back in him? Is there common there too? If I remember right Heat Seekers mom has maine in her too.

 

[Telos]

Power plant and or someone else?

Not Power Plant even though he's in both Holysmoke and Caesar. The common denominator on all four calves that appeared to have this foot issue was Dindonno.  Horton Helena probably is the common cow family. She had a full sister (Horton Lilac) if my memory serves me.

Just thinking out loud... Cunia was a common denominator also. But with his number of progeny I would think many breeders would have deducted him as a culprit by now. I have found with these other current defects that many years can pass before someone says something, though.

This was only four calves I observed that had pedigrees so this is not a scientific, objective study by any means.

 

[knabe]

Yeah I was hoping you wouldn't say that. Might have to go relook at two calves. I think they are both in the jpj thread. Can't remember if sh was in jpj. I did a quick look and didn't see any.

 

[knabe]

here's canadian holysmoke

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=20352036&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=59245C5B2321212321&9=5F515D5F

there's a shorthorn down in the daine's 1t cow.  doesn't mean it's real.

there's also one in the top in the gee bar 69 cow in blacksmith

 

[Telos]

here's canadian holysmoke

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=20352036&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=59245C5B2321212321&9=5F515D5F

there's a shorthorn down in the daine's 1t cow.  doesn't mean it's real.

there's also one in the top in the gee bar 69 cow in blacksmith

I guess this could be coming from strictly Shorthorns but highly doubt it. I wonder if JIT or some of the other Shorthorn folks have seen this in straight Shorthorn pedigrees?

 

[knabe]

the pic of the feet look the same don't they?

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=35313.0

 

[DL]

Dosnt JPJ have Maine back in him? Is there common there too? If I remember right Heat Seekers mom has maine in her too.

Apparently my post was eaten by cyber space - aghhhhhhh - I am not entirely sure I believe any of the pedigrees on some of these bulls but on paper

Heat Wave's dams sire is Taz - half blood Maine (Cunia and Magic) out of a Bulls Eye cow who is a Holy Smoke ---> Poplar Haven 68T ---> VHF Prospect (one of the true maternal bulls in the breed)

Heat Seeker (sire of Heat Wave) sire is De Bull who according to the AMAA his paternal grand dam is a MA X AN - but if you refer to the ACA papers that cow is a Chi X AN cross - so who knows who that cow is???

Heat Seekers dam is BC Tex Shorthorn 23 who apparently has no parents because none are listed on any of the web sites - I do believe I did find a pedigree once but I don't think I saved it - so who knows who that cow is???

JPJ has AHL Kodiak in his pedigree who is in theory a Maine but there is no pedigree for him anywhere - so who knows who he is???

telos in regards to Caesar - all the Caesar females I saw or owned were nice sound correct cows - I liked the bull - I think what did him in was the $50 semen certificate in a breed which really did not have certs and the closure of the border at bout the time he started to hit it big - before semen was available I think you could only get those genetics in bred females which was problematic in some instances - the Holy Smokes as I recall did not have rear structure issues

 

[knabe]

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=170207

 

[knabe]

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=233364

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=184988

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=76843

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=56387

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=170207

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=33909

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=30814

hmm

 

[DL]

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=170207

wrong bull - this is AHL Kodiak CM 39022
go thru the dam's sire JPJ *x4058319

 

[knabe]

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=170207

wrong bull - this is AHL Kodiak CM 39022
go thru the dam's sire JPJ *x4058319

i know they are not the same.  they might be differently named and registered in different places "accidentally".