DL - tell us about Fawn calf

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ROAD WARRIOR

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DL - You refered to Fawn calf in another post in reference to genetic defects. You've done an excellent job educating us on other defects (I'm not going there!) enlighten us about this one. (Keep it in cowboy language if you can, you know I'm not the brightest fire burning!)
 

DL

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Do you remember the "It was a dark and stormy night and the moon was shining bright and the big chief rose and said bo bo bo tell us a story"? Heck RW your are a pretty bright bulb in my book!  ;)


Fawn Calf Syndrome (FCS) is a recently described heritable defect of Angus cattle first reported from Australia and suspected in the USA and several other countries. It is called “Fawn Calf Syndrome” due to the unusual fawn-like hindlimb conformation of affected calves at birth. Researchers in Australia have been investigating FCS since 2001 – with the blessing of the Angus Society of Australia. FCS has not been fully characterized and is much subtler than the defects we frequently talk about (TH, PHA, dwarfism etc). 

The key clinical feature of FCS is congenital muscle contractures resulting in restricted movement of proximal (near the body) leg joints, particularly in the hind limbs. Passive movement of the limbs is restricted, which is obvious in severe cases.  The contractures improve dramatically as the calf ages, although muscle development always remains poor. In comparison to their normal siblings, the Australian researchers describe the FCS adults as “tall and skinny types” but otherwise apparently normal.  Affected calves appear taller than expected and there is increased angulation in the stifle and hock joints in addition to kyphosis (concave spine).  Severely affected calves may also have pronounced scoliosis (lateral s-shaped spine) leading to bilaterally asymetrical hindlimb conformation.  Severely affected FCS calves are culled or die at an early age due to their inability to stand to nurse or walk. Less severe cases may survive to maturity with apparently normal fertility. Based on breeding trials, the Australian researchers have concluded that FCS is a heritable genetic disorder, probably with a simple recessive mode of inheritance

While necropsy may provide additional information, a diagnosis of FCS is normally possible by careful clinical examination. The clinical hallmarks of FCS are: congenital proximal limb contractures; congenital kyphosis (and scoliosis in severe cases); congenital distal hyperlaxity; marfanoid conformation (think Abe Lincoln of cattle); muscle hypoplasia (decreased muscling); a significant reduction of the clinical severity with growth and maturity; and consistent pedigree tracing to an identified suspect founder animal on both sides of the pedigree.

All of the affected calves born in Australia for which pedigree data are available trace to one or more of four US bulls whose semen has been imported into Australia- all these bulls trace to the same US Angus cow. In the US, all of the suspected fawn calves whose pedigrees trace to these same bulls and the suspect founder cow or in one case ancestors of the cow.

Most of the “fawn calves” born in Australia have been sired by one particular US AI bull, a direct line descendent of the suspect founder cow identified by pedigree analysis in Australia. This bull has sired fawn calves in the controlled experimental breeding where 30% of the calves produced were affected with FCS.

There have been some reported cases in the US and Canada - Dr Reecy at Iowa State is working on the gene in collaboration with the Australian grou. If you (generic) think you have a calf with FCS Bryce Shumman at the AAA is the contact -


 

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ROAD WARRIOR

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Only occurring in Black Angus? The Red Angus breed still brings "new" genetics in from the blacks, any danger of importing this into our breed with an outcross pedigree? Can you "Name names?"
 

frostback

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All of the affected calves born in Australia for which pedigree data are available trace to one or more of four US bulls whose semen has been imported into Australia- all these bulls trace to the same US Angus cow. In the US, all of the suspected fawn calves whose pedigrees trace to these same bulls and the suspect founder cow or in one case ancestors of the cow.

Most of the “fawn calves” born in Australia have been sired by one particular US AI bull, a direct line descendent of the suspect founder cow identified by pedigree analysis in Australia. This bull has sired fawn calves in the controlled experimental breeding where 30% of the calves produced were affected with FCS.


So what are the bulls to stay away from? This is a genetic defect!!!! You should be screaming from the top of a mountain the names of bulls. You did it for TH and PHA sometimes on a whim of my neighbor had a dead calf born last night out of this bull.Jen says that the unsuspected commercial man will come and get clean Angus bulls to use when they start getting dead calves. Well  lots  ofcommercial guys have Angus cross cows what is stopping them from buying into a wreck of Fawn Calf Syndrome?

 

aj

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Wasn't there a guy on here a couple weeks ago wanting to do a pedigree study on some angus cow. Wasn't he from austrailia? Was this the deal on him or was that something else?
 

red

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AJ- his name was Jack or Ozraptor. Previous thread is still here. He is doing quite a bang up job researching the old lines. Very interesting web ites.

Red
 

DL

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frostback - back off - I do not know the names of the bulls or cow involved - this is a fairly tightly held secret and we are waiting for the Australians to publish their results and name names. I was asked to provide info on a newly described genetic defect of cattle and I did - take it for what it is worth.

My interest in TH and PHA is primarily because this is my breed of cattle and I ws concerned about the direction the breed going. Our TH and PHA information was directly from the researchers involved who thought it was important to provide it - if you didn't like it well I guess that is just too bad.
 

red

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What is your issue now w/ frostback? Backoff? I'm sooo confused!!!! suppose I'm being pissy again.

Red
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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Ladies I simply asked a question about a genetic disorder that could possibly cross into my breed through outcross genetics. From past conversations I knew DL had knowledge of this disorder so I posted to her knowing that she would answer as completely as she could with the knowledge she had available to her. I don't believe she would hold back publishing the names of the offending animals if she knew them, reguardless of who owned them or who it pi**ed off. Lets all take a step back and get back to the purpose of the original post - education.
 

justme

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(clapping) (clapping) (clapping)Well said maybe the best post you've ever made Road Warrior!  I wanted to say it but didn't want to cause any trouble. (clapping) (clapping)
 

knabe

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i have been tracking this one down, as well as the dwarf ones.  it is very tight lipped and there are threats of litigation without a test etc.  there's a few higher dollar breeders in the angus association than in the maine breed with a little more ooomph in litigation threat.  screaming at the top of one's lungs without the facts is not the right way.  screaming at the top of one's lungs to have one tested or submitting semen so the gene can be discovered is a different kind of screaming.  gotta agree with dl on this one as usual.  a test must be validated before one can scream.  screaming without this is irresponsible.
 

Jill

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Too bad we didn't use that same good judgement when we were posting that Ali was a carrier.
 

kanshow

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Good Post RW!!

Rumors are far more harmful than the truth.  It's that way in all breeds, all species.  I'd like to think that they'd get some of this information verified and out to the public ASAP.  I know that if I use Angus genetics and come up with a calf like that with the information I currently have - I'll axe the whole pedigree - and that isn't right.
 

DL

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ROAD WARRIOR said:
Ladies I simply asked a question about a genetic disorder that could possibly cross into my breed through outcross genetics. From past conversations I knew DL had knowledge of this disorder so I posted to her knowing that she would answer as completely as she could with the knowledge she had available to her. I don't believe she would hold back publishing the names of the offending animals if she knew them, reguardless of who owned them or who it pi**ed off. Lets all take a step back and get back to the purpose of the original post - education.

YUP you are right about that RW. Straight forward has never been my weakness  ;) While I think knowledge is power I guess there are those who are scared of knowledge...

The whole FCS thing was posted on the Advantage Cattle Baord a while back - with names; the owner of the board was worried about lawsuits so the posts were deleted. The information was allowed to be put back up without names. I did read it but Angus names are like Greek to me - too many Ritos and Bandos and Travelers etc  and billions of numbers so none of it sunk in (FYI disclaimer - those are just Angus names I remember they have nothing to do with FCS as far as I know)

so we anxiously await the publication of the paper by the Australian researchers which will name names and when I get it I will pass it on ASAP so that everyone will have the information if they want it

Jill - there was a great deal of evidence from breeders who reported that they had PHA calves from Ali -we aren't talking a couple we are talking dozens -  turns out this information was useful because it let us know that many of the calves born to the AI date were actually born early.  Of all the suspected carriers based on breeder information and sample submission ONLY 3 were incorrectly identified as carriers - had people been more forthright about supplying samples we might have been able to identify the gene earlier and exonerate Ali earlier. At the time people were hungry for information - not wanting to jeopardize their cow and have a dead calf - it certainly didn't hurt his semen sales

knabe - if you are looking for dwarfs start with the 7D7 bull - he is listed as a carrier on the AAA site

kanshow - if you come up with a calf like this PLEASE report it and make arrangements to submit if for verification of the condition, we are waiting on a FCS almost as we speak
  (cow)
 

kanshow

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DL - Any idea on the heritability?  Simple recessive?  More complex?  I'm not overly concerned as we don't use a great deal of Angus genetics.  We did use a really cool SimAngus bull as clean up on heifers and the Angus side of his pedigree was not something I'd heard of before so the thought did cross my mind.  But in saying that - I'm not overly familiar with Angus bloodlines to begin with. 

 

DL

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kanshow said:
DL - Any idea on the heritability?  Simple recessive?  More complex?  I'm not overly concerned as we don't use a great deal of Angus genetics.  We did use a really cool SimAngus bull as clean up on heifers and the Angus side of his pedigree was not something I'd heard of before so the thought did cross my mind.  But in saying that - I'm not overly familiar with Angus bloodlines to begin with. 

It seems to be a simple recessive - the really interesting thing is that the calves get "better" (less deformed) with age so it is more difficult to diagnose in older calves. There is a theory about different proteins being turned on or off at birth that explains why it gets better (and it kinda makes sense) but it has not been "scientifically" tested.
 

frostback

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DL said:
frostback - back off - I do not know the names of the bulls or cow involved - this is a fairly tightly held secret and we are waiting for the Australians to publish their results and name names. I was asked to provide info on a newly described genetic defect of cattle and I did - take it for what it is worth.



Gee, sorry that my post came across as hostile, that was not intended. All you had to reply was that "I DONT KNOW NAMES"
 

knabe

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even if one knows names, due to nature of some posts, and those people being tracked down and threatened with a lawsuit, no names will be posted, even if one knows them until the facts are clear and a test is available and it has the blessing of the australian angus association.  not sure what the legal standing the AAA could do to not allow it, but they hopefully will get behind it.  it appears they are, and you can be sure, like i've said before, the positioning has long since been happening.  since this one isn't owned by the AAA, it may be in the public domain.  imagine if the maine association had the rights to PHA and TH and wouldn't allow their use.  there still isn't an uproar in the AAA about dwarfs yet.  amazing.  ever since the 50's too. i think in general, it's not appreciated the level of determination, work etc is necessary to find these genes, develope a test.  it's probably easier to do this than get dna samples.  all one has to consider before they ask for one to name names is to consider other ramifications, ie, defending one's self with one's own money, even if they are right.  money traders don't take lightly their ability to trade. 
 

CAB

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RW, and other Red Angus breeder's, what were some of the reasons that the association decided to allow black genetics to be in the pedigrees of your breed? Myself, as a commercial breeder, thought that this was a rather large mistake on the breeds part. When I use a Red Angus bull, I am using it for specific strong traits that will breed on. Now I am not as apt to buy into the pool B/C I don't want to have to dig into 2 breeds. I thought that the Reds are way more predictable than the blacks B/C they had been bred cleaner, let's say.
 
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