NW Bull Bracket RND#1 Gizmo 35 vs Jakes Proud Jazz 34

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Gizmo vs Jakes Proud Jazz


  • Total voters
    69
  • Poll closed .

shortyjock89

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Go Stewmeat!  <party>  I think I saw a juicer named that once..maybe that was my name for him.  God Awful critters to let in the Beef book.  I like the effects of the Maine's in my horns today, but letting them in at 3/4 seems silly....silly to let in the roan Galloways from Ireland too....oooh well.  Horns wouldn't be where they are today without a little help from our friends haha. 
 

OH Breeder

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What I am trying to figure out if AJ tried my home remedy to resolve his headache? Did he take some Clariton? It seems like maybe the toothache and the headache have subsided. Careful with toothaches. Took care of a 28 year old kid that let his toothache go. The tooth got infected and his face blew up with puss so bad it shut his airway off. He ended up on a ventilator and had drains in his face. We took a liter of puss off in the first hour. So remember that with the next bad tooth.....
 

yuppiecowboy

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I am not nearly as atruistic as i once once concerning the integrity of a "breed", however I would wager several shillings that Cunia would DNA closer to the the Teeswater cattle of Bates than the shamrock eaters we got stuck with. Clare Man was a Galloway from the highlands that David Quane bought at the village version of a sale barn for six pounds and a reach around.

If he was still alive you could ask him. I did.
 

shortyjock89

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If it took 6 pounds and a reach around to buy the bull, what did it cost to know that info?? :eek:

  If I were old enough, I would know more about the importation of Shorthorns, and I really wish that I did..I'm a little obsessed with the history of the breed..but since I'm only 19, I've only had the pleasure of knowing the titans known as Double Stuff and Trump.  Long gone were the days of Improver and Cunia by the time I was around....I would be very interested in discussing the early imports at length with anyone who would care to divulge such info to a youngster. 
 

yuppiecowboy

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OH, miss olson, once upon a time I were a seeker of shithorn knowledge such as you. At this juncture of my life it seems akin to knowing the pattern of the Pac Man game at the local Pizza Hut. Utterly F ing useless. Give me a po box or address and I will happily give you my Dad's (and later my ) stockpile of the monthly periodical of the Shorthorn World, later the Shorthorn Country from mid 50's on. It is entertainting.

IF its naaaaaught Scottish its craaaap! It be good cuz Mathers broooought it over on a boooooat ayne its ayne ooown sonnnn of Bapton Who Gives a Hoot!

Hey Loius Theiman has the good ones lets go to missouri!!!

Leader 6th rules! Ask R. Lee!!!

Um wait... Ayatollah Rules!!!!!!!

Um wait... Dividend Rules!!!!

Um hold on RODEO DRIVE, um no...Steermaker, um no, Double Stuff, Um no TRUMP

Crap. Louis still alive? Maybe he still has some 21st semen hes using. Yeah lets do that.
 

justintime

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I met Tim Olhde at Dick Judy's Beef Genetics Research, Mankato, KS in 1974.  He was working for Dick Judy and they had partnered on some of the Irish Shorthorns that Beef Genetics Research had imported from Ireland. BGR had also imported a bunch of Simmental and Beef Friesen cattle from Ireland. Dick Judy found the Irish cattle in Ireland by accident as he was selecting Simmentals and Beef Friesen cattle and came upon a part of the Deerpark herd on pasture. He told us that they stopped and looked at the cattle and they thought  they were Maine Anjou cattle. He decided to find the owners and found the Quane Bros. It was on this meeting that the first Irish cattle came to the US.

I believe it was over some of these irish cattle that Ohlde and Judy had a disagreement and it ended with Olhde leaving BGR. If memory serves me correctly, there was a major dispute over which cattle were in their partnership. I don't know who was right but I remember it was got fairly heated between them. I remember that on our visit to BGR, that Olhde told us he owned some of the cattle, and later that day, Judy told us that he owned the better cattle we were wanting prices on. We talked about this on the way home and we wondered who was the actual owner. I think this is where the disagreement between them actually may have started.

At the same time, we were in the process of importing our first Irish Shorthorn cattle. One of my partners had also found the Irish cattle while visiting Ireland, and he came back with a few hundred slides taken of cattle in the Deerpark and Highfield herds. When he returned home, he called me and we met in a hotel room and viewed his slides on the hotel room wall. That night we decided to import a bull ( Highfiield Irish Mist) and two females Highfield kate 3rd and Highfield Margeret 2nd ( both daughters of Deerpark Leader 18th) . These cattle had no pedigrees or registration at that time, or we probably would have imported many more. At that time, you could buy the Irish cattle for peanuts. We had less than $2000 invested in each animal when they arrived on our farm, after a plane trip,two government quarantines of 60 days, and over 2000 miles of transport across Canada. We paid less than $300 each in Ireland for these cattle. The next bull we imported, IDS Duke of Dublin, cost us $25,000 in Ireland in 1978.

While we were finalizing our deal with the Irish breeders, we found out that some cattle were also being sent to BGR in Kansas. Once they arrived, we drove to Kansas to see these cattle. That was the first time we saw Deerpark Leader 13th ( Dividend) and Deerpark Improver. We all felt that Dividend was the best  Shorthorn bull we had ever seen and we tried to buy him. Dick Judy did not want to sell them even though the ASA board had rejected registration of the Irish cattle for the second time. A few days after we got home, I received a letter from Dick Judy in which he offered to sell Dividend and about 800 straws of semen for $25,000 and Improver and about 600 straws of semen for $8000. He said he did not want to sell the bulls seperately. We were only interested in Dividend as Improver was quite crippled at the time. He was one of the straightest legged bull I had ever seen and I really did not think he would ever breed another cow. How wrong I was, as he lived for many more years and bred many cows at Alden farms. Improver did not seem to pass his extreme post leggedness( is that a word???) on to his offspring. After much debate we decided we would not purchase these bulls as we felt that we could go to Ireland and bring in a few more bulls and more females for the same amount of money. Rather than do this, we went to a sale in Kansas City where the Irish government had flown in a plane load of cattle, and they were sold at Curt Rodgers sale facility. We purchased 8 bred females for less than Judy wanted for the two bulls. I am quite sure if we could have split the bulls and only purchased Dividend, we would have bought him, simply because we felt he was the greatest bull we had ever seen. I am sure that we could have made a mountain of money from semen sales if we had been able to do a deal on Dividend.

I would also add that I was super impressed with the Beef Friesens that BGR had imported. They brought at least 50 heifers and a few bulls in from Ireland, and they were by far the  best cattle we saw on this trip. I really think the only reason these cattle did not catch on was because of their black and white coloring. They were flat GOOD!
 

yuppiecowboy

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MR JIT, I remember that entire situation differently than you. Isnt it amazing how time can alter perception?

Those were the skinniest lumps of puke I had ever seen. And you couldnt blame it on quarantine, as they had more feed there then they eve had in there life.I never thought Improver was posty. In fact he was the the only animal I was impressed with. Warren got that tulip cow out of luck and even today people think that dupa knows what a good one is when i am not sure he could tell a a quality shorthorn heifer from a quality Golden retreiver.

Kind sir, you have my utmost admiration for taking your fathers master breeding skills and sifting through the modern hokey and old school phooey and coming up with diamonds. hats off.
 

justintime

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It is interesting to follow what happens in some of the so called pure breeds of cattle. I find it interesting that TH has shown up recently in come Angus cattle..... interesting. Many years ago, while attending a major Shorthorn dispersal in the US, I had the opportunity to visit with a major Angus breeder ( who shall remain nameless) . He quizzed me a length about Shorthorn bloodlines and about some Canadian dual purpose Shorthorn bloodlines. In this conversation he said he wanted to use Shorthorn sires that would leave black calves when mated to his purebred Angus cows. He said that he loved a Milking Shorthorn bull named McKee"s Matchless Dairyman, because his calves were solid black and had great growth.

At this same dispersal, I also met the head of the Ohio State bloodtyping lab ( I can't remember his name  right now) but he  told me that at that time he had found 8 fullblood Maine Anjou bulls that had identical bloodtypes to many purebred Shorthorns. He said that he would not be able to identify calves from these sires as being Non Shorthorn blood types.

I truly believe that over time, many things have been fudged in most every breed. This is not a new thing. It was going on in the 1800s as well as today.That does not make it right, and I do not condone anyone doing this, but I am just relaying my thoughts that it has been going on for centuries.
 

yuppiecowboy

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JIT, my father tells of a story when he was a child in the 1920s where a prominent angus breeder from western iowa bought a couple red shorthorn bulls from m grandfather as they threw midnight black calves.

A neighbor to my grandfather had "Milking Angus" kept up in the angus herd book, yet they always had a shorthorn cow freshener."Purebred" is pure BS. a hundred years ago it was likes breeds like and we are fools to think our forfathers were more noble.
 

justintime

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yuppiecowboy,.... I saw Improver 3 times over a few years.... and he was posty legged every time I saw him. The last time I saw him, his joints had frozen and he could not even flex his legs. As I said, He did not seem to pass this on to many offspring... at least to the ones I saw. The last time I saw him, I thought it was just a matter of time before he would not be able to get up when he laid down.

I will agree with you about many of the Irish cattle we saw at Judy's. Many wer plain terrible. When we visited there we all said we had seen the best cattle and the worst cattle we had ever seen ... on the same day. Some of the cattle that we thought we simply plain ugly, did mate well with the blood lines of the time here. The Tulip cow that Warren got ( the mother of Leggs) was purchased in the Irish sale in Kansas City. The reason I know this is because I was the runner up bidder on her and I have always regretted not buying her. It was a case where I had already bought 8 females when she was sold and I got cold feet. She was probably one of the best females to ever come across the pond. I think if she was alive today, she would be considered to be a " model" cow for today's industry. At the time, she was considered a little small for the times, but she certainly bred extremely well.

I will also add that there is nothing wrong with my memory, and my perception has not been altered by time. I remember those times as if they were yesterday.
 

yuppiecowboy

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Hey, that was not an attack at you. I simply saw  the same thing thing as you and remember it differently. I apologize if I came across differently. I enjoy reading y our posts. Even when your' wrong. :D

Improver (Galloway TH luggage aside) was the best of the bunch imho. Striaghtish maybe, but not posty to me. And I would happily give a kidney to have had tulip. Warren sold her to Leonard Adams for ? $1900 ? in his  "dispersal" seems a rather paltry sum for a tem year old at this point doesnt it? Some claim Margie 924 or the t90 cow as the best  shithorn matron, but if I could have a magic wand and have one horn cow, it would be Tulip. Closely followed by any Harvey Fulton cow I could pick circa 1968
 

justintime

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I remember that there was 5 or 6 Irish bulls in a pen at BGR. One was a red Improver bull and he was a very good bull. I am thinking this bull was Deerpark Improver 3rd, that went to elbee's family. Maybe he can verify this .
 

yuppiecowboy

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Mr Elbee would obviously know, but if i remember (its been a awhile) Leonard Bigham imported leader 3 on a later boat with more than a little of tim ohlde's encouragement.
 

aj

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OH breeder. Had a absess tooth pull yanked today. Clear on the back and bottom I decided just to yank it. I had swelling in under the jaw. Nice to get off the percoset stuff and back on colorado koolaide.
 

justintime

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Yuppie.... that may be right. I don't recall all the names of the bulls. I think the BGR improver bull that went to Schrags was there, as was Deerpark Leader 16th ( Stretch).
 

aj

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When Improver was so straight legged way back wouldn't that be the sign that he had the regular th phenotype even if his offspring didn't show it so bad. In other words say Double stuff was a throwback to this problem.I have heard Improver cattle made good cows and that the improver cattle didn't have soundness problems(offspring).
 

shortyjock89

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I really like the different perspectives of the same happenings.. I just think that if I'm ever going to become an astute cattleman, I need to learn about where the breed has been to maybe learn where it needs to go.
 

oakbar

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Wow!!  Why didn't someone tell me you guys were having such a lively discussion on this topic.  Good discussion guys although, again, I think I will probably always discount(at least a little) those opinions that are presented anonymously and with extreme emotion.  JMHO 
 
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