Doc
Well-known member
Just curious if anyone has seen any calves by him & if so what did you think?
Shorthorn sire - 100 Solutions
- Thread starter Doc
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Doc,
I haven't seen any calves by him yet, but did get a chance to see him at Sullivan's the fall that they were selling shares in him. Really looked good and man could he move. Looked like a tom cat strolling in the pasture. I haven't seen a catalog yet, but there might be a few calves by him in the Highlights of The Heartland Sale. I'm pretty sure Bernie and Greg bought a share.
I haven't seen any calves by him yet, but did get a chance to see him at Sullivan's the fall that they were selling shares in him. Really looked good and man could he move. Looked like a tom cat strolling in the pasture. I haven't seen a catalog yet, but there might be a few calves by him in the Highlights of The Heartland Sale. I'm pretty sure Bernie and Greg bought a share.
Doc
Well-known member
Stick, I liked the way he looked & really liked the way he is bred. Just thought we would have heard more about his calves by now. ???
garybob
Well-known member
Never seen him advertised. what is his pedigree? Did they ever do much with the Good, Masculine, DARK Roan "Venture" son?Doc said:
Doc
Well-known member
Garybob, he is a solution son out of casino 100. As far as the Venture son goes I think they have used him pretty heavy. Their ad for the sale says a lot of their bred females are bred to him.garybob said:
OH Breeder
Well-known member
garybob said:
They used him a ton on their heifer crop. They also offered eggs at a few sales. There should be a few calves hitting the ground this year all over if I remember right.
garybob
Well-known member
To quote Doc, there should be calves by him hitting the ground all over, but, instead, everyone is using the opposite--crippled hair-balls. Nobody in this breed, outside of a few people even care. The trend of fly-by-night breeders who only stay hooked for seven years will continue.stick said:
Digruntled and tired of trying,
GaryBob
OH Breeder
Well-known member
I would bet after the fall sales you might see an increase in registrery. Just because there is only one registered is not really a true reflection of his use.
Not all hairy balls are crippled GB. Some just may not appease your herd ideals. I appreciate your strong stance. But it takes time for the market to respond. Also,there isn't one market out there. It seems it is quiet diversified and has many facets. There are commercial guys, breed enthusiasts, Purist or traditionalist, club calves and hobbist. It take them all to make the world go round.
Not all hairy balls are crippled GB. Some just may not appease your herd ideals. I appreciate your strong stance. But it takes time for the market to respond. Also,there isn't one market out there. It seems it is quiet diversified and has many facets. There are commercial guys, breed enthusiasts, Purist or traditionalist, club calves and hobbist. It take them all to make the world go round.
garybob
Well-known member
The problem is, all these non-functional cattle hurt the reputation of good'uns. True, fertile, Defect-free, calf-raising Shorthorns don't have any negative effect on the marketability of Shorthorn Club Calves. It's a strong selling point for the heifers. But,trouble is, what they get after her show career is over is FAR from what the youngster's Grandfather might remember about Shorthorn cattle. You can't always blame a heifer's first couple calves on the fact she was too fat as a show heifer. It's genetics, man! Let somebody's Paw-Paw ( or whatever the family nickname for their grandfather) drop $2500 on a heifer, feed her, pay the expenses involved in showing and getting her bred, and, wind up with either a calf-starver, a hard-doing raw-boned biddie, a non-breeder, or a TH calf. Once this happens, there'll never be another one on the place.OH Breeder said:
Call me what you will. I've been involved in this breed LONG before Verl Shell met wayne Temple and Don Cagwin. At least my cows raise a calf ont heir own- No lute, no licks, no creep, Verl's donors can't.
OH Breeder
Well-known member
GB,
Not saying you are right or wrong. But once again, its one person's idea of what a functional female is over another. As we have seen many times over that idea or concept differs greatly from one to another. I think the enviroment you raise your herd in is what you become accustom to. If you are in the grain belt where pastures are green and the grain is cheaper or more plentiful it may not impact you as much as the fella that is shipping grain in or paying premimum for pasture.
The breed "view" or "reputation" unfortunate tends to be perpuated through what is visually apparent to folks. If you don't raise shorthorns then most likely you will see them at shows. That doesn't always mean that "show cattle"are a true representation of what is out in the back 40.
I would not call you anything except to say, stick to your guns.Nothing wrong with that. Personally, I dont think it is how much time you put into something, it is the results you produce/get. Whether that be business or life in general what really counts?That is my montra in life in general.
When you have seen the light a couple of times, and not by choice, you realize that some things just aren't worth the headache.
OH B ;D
Not saying you are right or wrong. But once again, its one person's idea of what a functional female is over another. As we have seen many times over that idea or concept differs greatly from one to another. I think the enviroment you raise your herd in is what you become accustom to. If you are in the grain belt where pastures are green and the grain is cheaper or more plentiful it may not impact you as much as the fella that is shipping grain in or paying premimum for pasture.
The breed "view" or "reputation" unfortunate tends to be perpuated through what is visually apparent to folks. If you don't raise shorthorns then most likely you will see them at shows. That doesn't always mean that "show cattle"are a true representation of what is out in the back 40.
I would not call you anything except to say, stick to your guns.Nothing wrong with that. Personally, I dont think it is how much time you put into something, it is the results you produce/get. Whether that be business or life in general what really counts?That is my montra in life in general.
When you have seen the light a couple of times, and not by choice, you realize that some things just aren't worth the headache.
OH B ;D
Doc
Well-known member
GB, I'm like OHB & it takes all kinds. You are right it's not good when one with problems affects someone's opinion of your breed. The only thing is I don't think that the Shorts have the market cornered on problems. I've probably not been raising Shorts as long as you have, I've only been raising them since 1970. Like you I've seen a bunch come & go over the years. Some of them have contributed positively to the breed & some negatively. No matter what you think Verl has contributed some good things to the breed, & Wayne & Don definitely have. Wayne is a personal friend of mine & was involved with Shorts long before Verl & will be long after Verl. Not all of his cows are like you have described.garybob said:
farmboy
Well-known member
garybob
Well-known member
My point was, that, Don and Wayne are what made Verl successful. It was through their "networking" that Mr. Shell was able to go as far as he did.
I haven't raised registered Shorthorns as long as you have. In fact, I was born the year you started (1970). However, I have been around commercial cattle my whole life. I purchased a Shorthorn heifer as a show project, about the time the MARC Data got published. After college, I resumed my Shorthorn involvement, and have been trying to breed for the traits I remember the Cross-bred roan cows in this area used to have. My search for real shorthorns led me to Paul Bridwell, Tom Deffenderfer, and Russell Sloan.Of these 3 guys, Paul is the only one still living. I have never made the claim to be from a multigeneration Shorthorn breeding farm.I didn't get any "Shorthorn Indoctrination" from my family ( they are opposed to anything that isn't currently popular). In fact, most of my knowlege about Shorthorns comes from many nights sitting up talking with Russell Sloan.
Like many of you, I only have two hand-fulls of Shorthorn cattle. The difference is, I chose not to go the easy route.
I haven't raised registered Shorthorns as long as you have. In fact, I was born the year you started (1970). However, I have been around commercial cattle my whole life. I purchased a Shorthorn heifer as a show project, about the time the MARC Data got published. After college, I resumed my Shorthorn involvement, and have been trying to breed for the traits I remember the Cross-bred roan cows in this area used to have. My search for real shorthorns led me to Paul Bridwell, Tom Deffenderfer, and Russell Sloan.Of these 3 guys, Paul is the only one still living. I have never made the claim to be from a multigeneration Shorthorn breeding farm.I didn't get any "Shorthorn Indoctrination" from my family ( they are opposed to anything that isn't currently popular). In fact, most of my knowlege about Shorthorns comes from many nights sitting up talking with Russell Sloan.
Like many of you, I only have two hand-fulls of Shorthorn cattle. The difference is, I chose not to go the easy route.
garybob
Well-known member
What does he look like, after a little maturity. He looks too feminine for me, in this picture.farmboy said:
aj
Well-known member
I say give em heck gary bob. (dog) (dog)Alot of the great breeders aren't driven by marketing and making money. I love it when a new breeder is discovered with his own breeding program and is successfull financially. Alot of people just do the "me to program". Use trump and rodeo drive, and on and on. They just use what is winning and what they are told to do. They don't have a selection pressure program. Guys like wegener and elbee and ohlde and etc. have a vision and guides for bw't acceptability and don't do single trait selection. They ratio and index and use common sense. So many people come in with alot of money and are taken under some guru's direction like cagwin and then disapear when the loose interest 7 years later. 
OH Breeder
Well-known member
aj said:I say give em heck gary bob. (dog) (dog)Alot of the great breeders aren't driven by marketing and making money. I love it when a new breeder is discovered with his own breeding program and is successfull financially. Alot of people just do the "me to program". Use trump and rodeo drive, and on and on. They just use what is winning and what they are told to do. They don't have a selection pressure program. Guys like wegener and elbee and ohlde and etc. have a vision and guides for bw't acceptability and don't do single trait selection. They ratio and index and use common sense. So many people come in with alot of money and are taken under some guru's direction like cagwin and then disapear when the loose interest 7 years later.
May be I am missing something, but how can you say that a breeder is not concerned with making money and yet they are "financially successful". That does not make sense to me at all. Now it would seem that if you are a "great breeder" you would be concerned with making money to be fiscally responsible. And once again- CAN"T generalize that one bull's blood line is totally unsuccessful. Just because you see no utility in Trump bloodlines does not mean that is the same for all. There are few folks that have had success with those blood lines. Where is JIT when we need him.
Doc
Well-known member
AJ, I guess that you & the great breeders you're talking about have a lot deeper pockets than I do(which is not that hard to do). I'm very driven by money, my wife & banker tells me I had better be ;D which means you have to driven by some sort of marketing.I will use what I think will work best on my cows & still give me a marketable product. I also think for a lot of Shorthorns we are getting Trumped & Sonnyed out. That's why I'm going back & using bulls like Pa Do Boxer, DMCC Dr Pepper, Leggs & CC Cujo to try for some fresh blood(?) . But I'm still using CF Primo & NPS Durango & NPS Improvers Stride who I own part of & have had good results with.aj said:I say give em heck gary bob. (dog) (dog)Alot of the great breeders aren't driven by marketing and making money. I love it when a new breeder is discovered with his own breeding program and is successfull financially. Alot of people just do the "me to program". Use trump and rodeo drive, and on and on. They just use what is winning and what they are told to do. They don't have a selection pressure program. Guys like wegener and elbee and ohlde and etc. have a vision and guides for bw't acceptability and don't do single trait selection. They ratio and index and use common sense. So many people come in with alot of money and are taken under some guru's direction like cagwin and then disapear when the loose interest 7 years later.
justintime
Well-known member
I have not seen any 100 Solutions calves, but I have heard some good reports about them. I am impressed with the Pure Solution calves I have seen. I have a Pure Solution bull calf that is outstanding. Anyone who thinks that some of these cattle can't work in the real world are wrong. I have already had some pretty good ranchers asking me if I am planning to sell this calf. True, some are disasters if they get more than 30 feet from the tub of show ration, but some can be good in the show ring and the real world.
I think any of us who raise these critters for our livlihood, are forced to pay some attention to what we can sell , or in other words, what the buying public demands. If we don't, we end up selling all our purebred cattle at commercial prices at the sale barn, which makes little sense at all. If the local sale barn is your best market, you would be much smarter using a good crossbreeding program. If you have too much invested in yoru purebred cows, you should consider dispersing them and buying back a good group of F1 females and producing some great F2s.
That being said, I think too many breeders are afraid to use their own judgement and simply follow what a few so called " elite" breeders do. There is nothing wrong with using some of these bloodlines, but you should be also trying to produce a product that is distinct. I sell my bulls to mostly commercial cattlemen, but I also use the shows as a measuring stick of my cattle against what others are producing. I simply do not think there is any reason that good show stock cannot be good breeding stock. There are lots of examples of functional show cattle. There are lots of examples of poor doing cattle that have never seen a show ring. If you stay away from fads and try to keep close to sound functional cattle, there should be no reason you can't develop a product that will work anywhere .
I think any of us who raise these critters for our livlihood, are forced to pay some attention to what we can sell , or in other words, what the buying public demands. If we don't, we end up selling all our purebred cattle at commercial prices at the sale barn, which makes little sense at all. If the local sale barn is your best market, you would be much smarter using a good crossbreeding program. If you have too much invested in yoru purebred cows, you should consider dispersing them and buying back a good group of F1 females and producing some great F2s.
That being said, I think too many breeders are afraid to use their own judgement and simply follow what a few so called " elite" breeders do. There is nothing wrong with using some of these bloodlines, but you should be also trying to produce a product that is distinct. I sell my bulls to mostly commercial cattlemen, but I also use the shows as a measuring stick of my cattle against what others are producing. I simply do not think there is any reason that good show stock cannot be good breeding stock. There are lots of examples of functional show cattle. There are lots of examples of poor doing cattle that have never seen a show ring. If you stay away from fads and try to keep close to sound functional cattle, there should be no reason you can't develop a product that will work anywhere .
