Letter to Obama . N/C

[knabe]

Obama definitely had the popularity vote and was hyped up more in the media, but I think there was probaly some reason behind it.

can you say bribe?  the stimulus package is payola written by democrats (pelosi two years ago) for democratic voters.  think of this, proof of citizenship is WAIVED for workers on the stimulus package.  hmmm.  i wonder why.  the media is 90% democrat, GE owns NBC, not real difficult to see this ties in with global warming marketing and positioning assets to take advantage of government mandates which is advertised by the media.  the government military media complex is withering while the government media environmental global warming have replaced them.

 

[knabe]

please tell me what capitalism has done for health care that has benifited anyone??...jbarl

please tell me what something other than capitalism has done for health care that has benefited anyone?

 

[knabe]

words means things.

they sure do.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/09/americas-first-muslim-president/

Mr. Obama referred four times in his speech to "the Holy Koran." Non-Muslims -- even pandering ones -- generally don't use that Islamic formulation.

• Mr. Obama established his firsthand knowledge of Islam (albeit without mentioning his reported upbringing in the faith) with the statement, "I have known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was first revealed." Again, "revealed" is a depiction Muslims use to reflect their conviction that the Koran is the word of God, as dictated to Muhammad.

• Then the president made a statement no believing Christian -- certainly not one versed, as he professes to be, in the ways of Islam -- would ever make. In the context of what he euphemistically called the "situation between Israelis, Palestinians and Arabs," Mr. Obama said he looked forward to the day ". . . when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) joined in prayer."  no comment on unity in any muslim country of different peoples, especially jews, again blatant hypocrisy.  but obama is just so cute, his policies or statements shouldn't matter.

Now, the term "peace be upon them" is invoked by Muslims as a way of blessing deceased holy men. According to Islam, that is what all three were - dead prophets. Of course, for Christians, Jesus is the living and immortal Son of God.

 

[JbarL]

please tell me what capitalism has done for health care that has benifited anyone??...jbarl

please tell me what something other than capitalism has done for health care that has benefited anyone?

hospice...  ....ronald mc donald house....medicare...amercian cancer socierty......food banks....salvation army......vetrans admistration...oh and hows about a  free medical card......many carry those....why not all??.....capitalism cant create eternity in the health arena.....
so once again " what has capitallism done for health care that has benifited anyone"? 
i try and answere your inquires....why dont ya give mine a shot???....your point could be made with a bit more bite....if it actually has teeth?....are yoiu gumming me again knabster???....jbarl

 

[knabe]

hospice...  ....ronald mc donald house....medicare...amercian cancer socierty......food banks....salvation army.........oh and hows about a  free medical card......many carry those....why not all??.....capitalism cant create eternity...jbarl
[/quote]

capitalism created ALL of those, and nothing can create eternity, so that's a circular argument.  our society created the means to voluntarily create the above, something alternatives to capitalism have not created.

you validated my argument PERFECTLY!  i was going to list a similar list.  charitable giving, not mandated giving, is the hallmark of capitalism.  witness the art collection which started the national gallery in spite of FDR.

http://www.nga.gov/collection/gallery/ggfound/ggfound-main1.html

alternatives to capitalism pale in comparison.

 

[JbarL]

hospice...  ....ronald mc donald house....medicare...amercian cancer socierty......food banks....salvation army.........oh and hows about a  free medical card......many carry those....why not all??.....capitalism cant create eternity...jbarl

capitalism created ALL of those, and nothing can create eternity, so that's a circular argument.  our society created the means to voluntarily create the above, something alternatives to capitalism have not created.

you validated my argument PERFECTLY!  i was going to list a similar list.  charitable giving, not mandated giving, is the hallmark of capitalism.  witness the art collection which started the national gallery in spite of FDR.

http://www.nga.gov/collection/gallery/ggfound/ggfound-main1.html

alternatives to capitalism pale in comparison.
[/quote]

so why do we need 50K to be diagonised with cancer....and 125K....to make us comfortable if hospice does it for nothing....??if the capitalistic mind set would go away....we could die and be sick alot cheaper....all of those charitable services recieve governement support....all of those listed we created BECAUSE of capitalistic medicine...someone had to chip in....thats your own admission.....and they are great folks....but dont think for a moment that any of those organizations get no government monies or tax breaks or matching funds out of our paychecks and state and county monies as well......jbarl

 

[farwest]

I haven't read half of this and am not going to... 
But i'll say it a third time.. The economy is improving and showing signs.. Retailers are restocking supplies at a faster rate.  Why.. I would guess because the consumer is buying at a faster rate.  That is where the main portion of the economy is driven from.  I'll say it again.  Voted for George W twice.  Never voted for obama.  Would i vote for bush again.  Never.  If this is the beginning of a long recovery i'm sure it will be what george w started...not.

 

[knabe]

I haven't read half of this and am not going to... 
But i'll say it a third time.. The economy is improving and showing signs.. Retailers are restocking supplies at a faster rate.  Why.. I would guess because the consumer is buying at a faster rate.  That is where the main portion of the economy is driven from.  I'll say it again.  Voted for George W twice.  Never voted for obama.   Would i vote for bush again.   Never.  If this is the beginning of a long recovery i'm sure it will be what george w started...not.

so which part of the economy improving is directly caused by obama and which part of that has been improved by stimulus, spending whatever, and which part is due to consumers being out of stuff they consume and which part is consumption behavior change.

 

[knabe]

so why do we need 50K to be diagonised with cancer....and 125K....to make us comfortable if hospice does it for nothing....??if the capitalistic mind set would go away....we could die and be sick alot cheaper....all of those charitable services recieve governement support....all of those listed we created BECAUSE of capitalistic medicine...someone had to chip in....thats your own admission.....and they are great folks....but dont think for a moment that any of those organizations get no government monies or tax breaks or matching funds out of our paychecks and state and county monies as well......jbarl

why shouldn't everything be free?  the expense increase is due to subsidies and tax incentives, compliance with regulations, lawsuits, workmans comp, taxes for programs that are outside the responsibilities laid forth in the constitution in spite of the "general welfare" clause which is abused by everyone.  being independent is in the general welfare interest of the country.

 

[farwest]

I haven't read half of this and am not going to... 
But i'll say it a third time.. The economy is improving and showing signs.. Retailers are restocking supplies at a faster rate.  Why.. I would guess because the consumer is buying at a faster rate.  That is where the main portion of the economy is driven from.  I'll say it again.  Voted for George W twice.  Never voted for obama.   Would i vote for bush again.   Never.  If this is the beginning of a long recovery i'm sure it will be what george w started...not.

Well, my associates degree from pitchfork univesity in pitching bs isn't able to answer that.  However i'm sure the improvement will be a result of what bush started, fox news, and the people that reacted to the situation because of fox news..

 

[JbarL]

so why do we need 50K to be diagonised with cancer....and 125K....to make us comfortable if hospice does it for nothing....??if the capitalistic mind set would go away....we could die and be sick alot cheaper....all of those charitable services recieve governement support....all of those listed we created BECAUSE of capitalistic medicine...someone had to chip in....thats your own admission.....and they are great folks....but dont think for a moment that any of those organizations get no government monies or tax breaks or matching funds out of our paychecks and state and county monies as well......jbarl

why shouldn't everything be free?  the expense increase is due to subsidies and tax incentives, compliance with regulations, lawsuits, workmans comp, taxes for programs that are outside the responsibilities laid forth in the constitution in spite of the "general welfare" clause which is abused by everyone.  being independent is in the general welfare interest of the country.

that darn "general welfare"......who would have ever thought of starting a country and include something as ridiculous as that??....jbarjefferson

 

[herefordfootball]

Herf.....couple things......look up the word ignorant. My main point was the U.S. Government has a thing called the congress. It has a Senate and a house of representatives. They have books on the subject. The president has veto power. The president is also in the bully pulpit if his party in controll. Legislation moves quikly through the house and slower through the senate. It is a system of checks and balances and there is a method to the madness. I stated that the following statement was a ignorant statement. If MCain were elected he would have run the country in the ground. This is an ignorant statement. A Republican president with the democrats in controll would likely have the following result.You would have a veto in place and a veto proof majority or filibuster proof majority in play. The Republican president would be limited in his power to do do a whole lot. All I am saying is that words means things. Your premis was wrong. You were setting up a straw man and then knocking it down. Nothing personal. Its just hard to have a meaningfull discussion unless their is a certain amount of intellectual integrity on both sides of the arguement. :-*

Thanks for clearing it up a bit, but if you're saying that the final say is going to come down to congress which is full of democrats, how would McCain fit the seat better than Obama?

 

[herefordfootball]

Didnt read half the sh** you guys put on here about healthcare, but if we didnt have what we do today my family would be in debt, probaly not own the house we live in, ground we walk on, or the computer I type on. So whatever your views are on it now I dont care but I think some of you ought to rethink your statements before you post and think "how much do I really know about the frontline of medicare and its costs before I say a da** thing."

 

[knabe]

Didnt read half the sh** you guys put on here about healthcare, but if we didnt have what we do today my family would be in debt, probaly not own the house we live in, ground we walk on, or the computer I type on. So whatever your views are on it now I dont care but I think some of you ought to rethink your statements before you post and think "how much do I really know about the frontline of medicare and its costs before I say a da** thing."

you didn't say anything.  why the hate and swear word inference?  why don't you just post some facts and add to the debate instead of continually puffing your chest?

my health care plan. 
1.  catastrophic plan
2.  out of pocket for most else with a tax free account.

similar plans to the above are everywhere.  they fit two types of people.  those who are healthy and don't need health care, and also the chronic one's with a relatively small deductible for the costs incurred for whatever reason.

the one's it doesn't fit are people who in general, yes there are exceptions, lead an unhealthy lifestyle and have no incentive or disincentive to change their behavior.

at some point, it seems fair to impose costs or consequences for irresponsible behavior.  charity would cover a lot of the real needy ones that everyone uses for anecdotal worst case capitalism bashing scenario's.

collectivism equals shared misery, not shared happiness.  everyone can't play guitar with the same expertise.

the co-pay stuff is ridiculous how it is implemented today.  even people who have a $5 copay still refuse to pay and force themselves on providers and collection agencies.  those are some of the people to go after, not capitalism.

i didn't have to "re-think" my post, but if you re-thought yours, you might notice your comments have lots of assumptions about people which aren't true and have little to do with facts.  FACT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1E3OFbCpqE

"the creature pulling it's way forward"

 

[knabe]

No offense Knabe but I think you spent a little too much time behind a desk, computer, books, etc. and not enough time in the real world to know whats really going on.

your logic is completely ad hominem.  i have provided a definition for you.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

translation.  you don't back up your argument with facts, you attack the person.  IQ required < palin's age.

 

[knabe]

Wow well then if this is a "debate" count me out because the people that take part in debates, well at least half the stuff they say is lies and I'm not into that. TTYL

(lol)

 

[shortyjock89]

Thanks for clearing it up a bit, but if you're saying that the final say is going to come down to congress which is full of democrats, how would McCain fit the seat better than Obama?

Maybe a little bit of balance. Now the Dems can just do whatever they want.  They pretty much did before, but at least the Reps had the power of Veto.  I'd much rather a good Independent candidate be in office...and yes Chris, I've had to rely on the healthcare system and I wouldn't be alive today if we didn't have good insurance...and the Ronald McDonald House helped my parents out when I had a major surgery as an infant.  And I still don't like Obama's policies. 

 

[JbarL]

Didnt read half the sh** you guys put on here about healthcare, but if we didnt have what we do today my family would be in debt, probaly not own the house we live in, ground we walk on, or the computer I type on. So whatever your views are on it now I dont care but I think some of you ought to rethink your statements before you post and think "how much do I really know about the frontline of medicare and its costs before I say a da** thing."

the one's it doesn't fit are people who in general, yes there are exceptions, lead an unhealthy lifestyle and have no incentive or disincentive to change their behavior

i grew up in the ohio valley....that turned out to be an unhealthy llifestyle...cancer rate is probally 3/5 times higher...grandfather died of mestothilomia from working as a pipfitter for 35 yrs......another unhealthy lifestylye i  suppose....my mother and father both barley made it to 60....unhealthy lifestyle ?....hows about an aquaintance of of ours who just brought home there new downs baby about 6 months ago....they are up to over 100k in bills to date.......lfiestyle?...or life period?.......i suppose that  starts us down that "us" and "them" road....the sooner folks learn that " the sum is never greater than the total " and realize we are all in this together...like it or not.....the better.....    jbarl

 

[knabe]

life period.

here's a short list from my side.

grandfather dead, age 60 heart attack, strokes
uncle, 65, died stroke
cousin, cancer, 35 hysterectomy
obesity
alchoholism
grandfather, 60 dead, alzheimers
uncle, dead 33, heart attack
uncle, dead, went through thresher, came out other end in bits.
wife's sisters, mental disability
wife's father, alzheimers 50 dead.
wife's mother insane (joke)
aunt, breast cancer
friend's sister who had baby tested for down's, decided to have it. over 90% are aborted.
there's more.

 

[JbarL]

life period ...is tough enough wouldnt you say...??  ironic that the guy who went through the thrasher was tragic and unexpected....and had the least expensive health care costs........jbaralive