More Defects

[LazyGLowlines]

but dwarfism, what do you think lowlines are? to me it looks like a defect.

Lowlines are pure angus cattle that were part of a research project to create a more efficient beef cattle.  If you look back at the championship angus cattle from the 40's and 50's you'll notice the lowlines look the same (or very similar).  Most beef breeds in the U.S. were much smaller and were called 'belt-buckle' cattle because they were as high as a man's waist.  We've had many old-timers come up to us and say they remember their FFA angus steer being 'lowline' size.  So they are definately not dwarfs, nor do they carry the dwarf gene!!!!

 

[knabe]

i thought defects were features. 

 

[shortyjock89]

i thought defects were features. 

Wicked perspective, man..... O0

 

[knabe]

i thought defects were features. 

Wicked perspective, man..... O0

ollllld inside joke for programmers.

 

[Steer Boy 101]

Ok ill admit on the lowline thing i was not correect. but i know for a fact that the red angus was a DEFECT. for it came from a defect red carraier of black angus cattle. and its listesd as a DECEFT not a mutation. thats a postive

 

[Torch]

Trait:  A distinguishing quality; an inherited characteristic.

Defect: An imperfection that impairs worth or utility : shortcoming. A lack of something necessary for completeness, adequacy, or perfection.

Just because some one calls it a defect, ie red color, doesn't make it one. Take Canada, they register both red and black hided angus cattle. Does that mean only in America that red is a defect? And is that only for Angus cattle or all red cattle?

AM in cattle is a defect for when two carriers are mated there is a 25% the calf is born dead. A lethal defect.

"Misuse of words leads to miscommunication which leads to confusion." - Webster

FWIW

 

[knabe]

in warmer climates, black may be defective.

what is the actual benefit of black other than being dominant?  marketing?

is marketing heritable?

 

[yousesteers]

truth be known Lowlines are probaly the true angus and what we all call angus today is a crossbred of sorts to get there size I worked fro some angus breeders it was no coincidence they owned a commercial herd also if a "purebred' came out spotted well that calf wsa crossbred if it came out solid black it was a purebred angus

 

[jbw]

I know that no one is perfect, but, how much semen at the studs, or on farm collections have been contaminated over the millions of collection in the last ??? years that have led to accidental crosses that were undetected. Or how many rogue bulls jumped the fence, played with the purebred cows, got back home, and the next spring had some unknown progeny at "Purebred Paul's" Angus,Limi, Maine......  ranch and represented, unknowingly, as a purebred. I'm not going into the one that just knowingly falsify the papers. The only way to know what we have is to DNA all of them. I have a friend with purebred Herfs and used an Angus [20 units] AI on them. All bred the same day, cleaned up with PB herf. the calving window, 39 days. Do we always know for sure, or do we just guess sometimes?

 

[Cattledog]

i thought defects were features. 

Wicked perspective, man..... O0

ollllld inside joke for programmers.

As I am a programmer.....we still use that joke!

 

[fluffer]

What aggervates me is when there is a known leathel gene in a breed and that breed sits on the info and doesn't try to get to the bottom of it ASAP to stop it.  That is when it crosses into other breeds and becomes a major problem.  It is like the samenolla in the peanut butter if they had just sat on it and let the manufacturers of the byproducts (ie South Beach, or Little Debbie, Etc) worry about the problem instead of the actual peanut butter manufacurer in GA worring about the problem imagine how much more contaminated our food would be.  Same with cattle.  If the Angus knwo about curley calf but don't share the info then it creeps into Gelbvieh, Simmental, Main, Chi, Etc and now each association has to decide how they want to handle it.  Not pointing fingers guys, just using that example.  In my opnion no matter how good the animal is if it carries a lethal gene then it should not be registered no matter what breed.  THere really isnt' any more anyone can do other then that.  Just my opnion.

Fluffer

 

[aj]

The Red Angus will kick a Black Angus's but in the feedlot 80% of the time. The red angus are alot purer. The black Angus has so much chi and amerifax and holstein in the bloodlines that people would drop dead if they knew. I have seen black angus cattle that are harder keeping than chi's. I have seen black angus cattle that grade 30% choice in feedlots. On the top end there are some awful good carcass black angus cattle. But in general the black hide myth is going to be looked back on a huge joke. The black hide means nothing. 20 years ago the industry average for feedlot cattle for grading choice was 70%. Since then we have black chis, black simis,black limis,black gelbviehs,black longhorns, black Llamas. The industry now grades out at 50%. Then we sit back and listen to salebarn reports about 15 head of black steers, and 15 head of black cow, and 20 head of black heifers. What does it mean? Not a dam thing.Using the black as a measure of quality is for retards. Feedlot people know better now. Its not about color its about bloodlines.

 

[Cattledog]

The Red Angus will kick a Black Angus's but in the feedlot 80% of the time. The red angus are alot purer. The black Angus has so much chi and amerifax and holstein in the bloodlines that people would drop dead if they knew. I have seen black angus cattle that are harder keeping than chi's. I have seen black angus cattle that grade 30% choice in feedlots. On the top end there are some awful good carcass black angus cattle. But in general the black hide myth is going to be looked back on a huge joke. The black hide means nothing. 20 years ago the industry average for feedlot cattle for grading choice was 70%. Since then we have black chis, black simis,black limis,black gelbviehs,black longhorns, black Llamas. The industry now grades out at 50%. Then we sit back and listen to salebarn reports about 15 head of black steers, and 15 head of black cow, and 20 head of black heifers. What does it mean? Not a dam thing.Using the black as a measure of quality is for retards. Feedlot people know better now. Its not about color its about bloodlines.

I'm not really sure that having holstein in angus has really hurt the carcass value.  Holstein are said to marble like crazy!  It's kind of the less muscle more fat theory.  The feedlot data may be correct for Red Angus...I'll buy it considering that the black frame scores have been jacked up and down in what seems like a year or two timespan.  As far as the hard keeping angus goes....I have a next door neighbor that raises reds and his cows are some of the hardest doin critters I have ever seen.  Going along with your assesment the top end are real good and everybodys bottom end are usually equally bad or so bad that you don't care to say which is worse.

 

[knabe]

The only way to know what we have is to DNA all of them.

this would require probably 25-50 dollars extra per calf to register calves (depending on volume). 

perhaps we need a poll.  i'm guessing that number would be low.

or it could be high, but in practice, low, as proven by simple to find evidence where current registration costs are higher.

 

[aj]

I'd agree. Seems like to me no natural selection is practiced in any breed anymore. Udders, and big birth weights,epds, are what breeders concentrate on. Especially since e.t has become so practical natural selection pressure just isn't used any more.Are our cows better than thet were 15 years ago? I don't think so. EPD's and the showring has screwed things up. We have maxed out yearling epd's and in the process birth weights, fleshing ability, udders, and alot of things have gone out the window. I'm almost afraid to try a embryo transfer line of cattle cause you know no enviromental sele ction has been used.

 

[fluffer]

I'd agree. Seems like to me no natural selection is practiced in any breed anymore. Udders, and big birth weights,epds, are what breeders concentrate on. Especially since e.t has become so practical natural selection pressure just isn't used any more.Are our cows better than thet were 15 years ago? I don't think so. EPD's and the showring has screwed things up. We have maxed out yearling epd's and in the process birth weights, fleshing ability, udders, and alot of things have gone out the window. I'm almost afraid to try a embryo transfer line of cattle cause you know no enviromental sele ction has been used.

If you chase the show ring this is what you get.  If you chase $$ in the beef industry you have to look at the whole picture therwise your bottom line starts with a minus and you are no longer in the beef industry.  The show ring is fun, and some people can sell animals for big bucks but from top to bottom the quality is not consistant.  If you make your living on red meat produced from your cows you have to have a consistant profitable product.  This means no dead calves, and mommas who milk and breed back with the least amount of imput and fed cattle that will cut a desirable carcass

Fluffer

 

[OH Breeder]

Ok ill admit on the lowline thing i was not correect. but i know for a fact that the red angus was a DEFECT. for it came from a defect red carraier of black angus cattle. and its listesd as a DECEFT not a mutation. thats a postive

Its called recessive red gene  not defect. Difference in recessive and defect. Proper term is a recessive gene is expressed hence red angus cattle. You have heard of Red carriers in the angus breed. I am not the geneticist nor am I a animal science major. Nor am I an Angus person.
The American Aberdeen Angus Herdbook stopped registering red calves in 1917.

 

[red]

brindle would be a recessive gene?

Red

 

[fluffer]

brindle would be a recessive gene?

Red

Maybe Diluter?

Fluffer

 

[LazyGLowlines]

The only way to know what we have is to DNA all of them.

this would require probably 25-50 dollars extra per calf to register calves (depending on volume). 

perhaps we need a poll.  i'm guessing that number would be low.

or it could be high, but in practice, low, as proven by simple to find evidence where current registration costs are higher.

Fullblood lowine cattle must be DNA tested for parentage today, and the cost is $25 per head PLUS registration.  This ensures the fullbloods really are 100% lowline AND from the sire and dam listed.  lIt's not required on percentages (1/2 blood or higher lowlines) though there has been talk about requiring it there too.