Top 10 Shorthorn Cow Families

[knabe]

And your only 36!!!! I thought you were about five, due your poor literary skills which is evident in the spelling errors which include GENIUS, GUINNESS and Irish with a capital I.

i think it's you're, or you could of said you are.  is should be are so plurality agrees, you could have said your spelling errors, but it's probably more important to keep pushing strawman arguments instead of working on your own literary skills.  include might be includes, don't know.

 

[knabe]

strawman debate skills seem highly correlated with giving people negative karma points.

 

[irishshorthorns]

I had a reserve grand champ at Louisville in 2007. I have only sold a few bulls. Most I ever sold one for was 3500. American. I never showed again after 2007. I got better things to spend my money on. You keep drinkin the cool aid, spending mommy and daddy's money and tell everybody that you were actually dumb emough to spend 80,000 grand on cattle. I sure hope you got about 50 head so far, otherwise, I rest my case.  I have only been doing this 12 years with MY money. You will hear more from me in the future, count on it. I guess I am jealous you have actually seen and lived in Ireland. On the other hand if you had children I would consider the gene pool tainted.  I gotta admit, we will both get banned. I am fine with that as long as your gone too. All those negative karma points you are giving me and the only thing you can say is "negativity". Come on dude, you gotta do better than that. At least mine was filled with insults and cussing. Enjoy living the high life off mommy and daddy for the rest of your years. I bet your hands are as soft as a babies bottom and you never worked a day in your life. Now I must quit the child like debate. Im getting bored with you. Thanks for all the laughs potatoehead. I was offered a free plane ticket this morning just to make sure I make it to Agribition. You just never know. I never been there.

I spend money to make money. I buy embryos for 400 - 1,000 CDN $ and resell them, as well as implant the pick for my own use. I also import and sell semen at a 40% mark up. Do the math. That's why I own my own farm and house, and am just about to purchase a neighbouring farm too, and I don't have to get dirty trying. Why work your muscles when you can work your most important one? My average for sale bulls this year was 3,223 Euro. The average age of bull sold was 13 months. My last Shorthorn  bull sold to a syndicate of three pedigree breeders. He was a sale Grand Champion. What sold him was his pedigree AND phenotype. A son of Code Red from one of my undefeated show cows. All asterisk free. I have a waiting list this year for heifers, and have already sold my best bull calf at 12 weeks to another pedigree breeder. I have retained 50% semen rights. He's a heavily muscled son of Alta Cedar Perfect Storm 11U, from a Kilkelly Major cow. I also have a breeder visiting Friday next who wants another Storm calf and embryos from my Canadian inventory. It's all about quality, exclusivity and uniqueness. As for the offer of a free ticket to Canada for Agribition, don't worry, I've got one already paid for for me by an Angus breeder in Scotland who has me contracted as his new breeding adviser. We're also heading to Argentina for the World Angus Secretariat. I'll also be travelling at his expense. I don't expect to buy anything there, but hey, it's a holiday. Nice work if you can get it. And the reason I can?  I get results for my customers. One I Irish breeder just got 37,000 for two bulls, bred from embryos I bought for him. They cost him 3,200 Euro, but they more than paid their way. This year he's ordered another 25!

 

[Okotoks]

I had a reserve grand champ at Louisville in 2007. I have only sold a few bulls. Most I ever sold one for was 3500. American. I never showed again after 2007. I got better things to spend my money on. You keep drinkin the cool aid, spending mommy and daddy's money and tell everybody that you were actually dumb emough to spend 80,000 grand on cattle. I sure hope you got about 50 head so far, otherwise, I rest my case.  I have only been doing this 12 years with MY money. You will hear more from me in the future, count on it. I guess I am jealous you have actually seen and lived in Ireland. On the other hand if you had children I would consider the gene pool tainted.  I gotta admit, we will both get banned. I am fine with that as long as your gone too. All those negative karma points you are giving me and the only thing you can say is "negativity". Come on dude, you gotta do better than that. At least mine was filled with insults and cussing. Enjoy living the high life off mommy and daddy for the rest of your years. I bet your hands are as soft as a babies bottom and you never worked a day in your life. Now I must quit the child like debate. Im getting bored with you. Thanks for all the laughs potatoehead. I was offered a free plane ticket this morning just to make sure I make it to Agribition. You just never know. I never been there.

I spend money to make money. I buy embryos for 400 - 1,000 CDN $ and resell them, as well as implant the pick for my own use. I also import and sell semen at a 40% mark up. Do the math. That's why I own my own farm and house, and am just about to purchase a neighbouring farm too, and I don't have to get dirty trying. Why work your muscles when you can work your most important one? My average for sale bulls this year was 3,223 Euro. The average age of bull sold was 13 months. My last Shorthorn  bull sold to a syndicate of three pedigree breeders. He was a sale Grand Champion. What sold him was his pedigree AND phenotype. A son of Code Red from one of my undefeated show cows. All asterisk free. I have a waiting list this year for heifers, and have already sold my best bull calf at 12 weeks to another pedigree breeder. I have retained 50% semen rights. He's a heavily muscled son of Alta Cedar Perfect Storm 11U, from a Kilkelly Major cow. I also have a breeder visiting Friday next who wants another Storm calf and embryos from my Canadian inventory. It's all about quality, exclusivity and uniqueness. As for the offer of a free ticket to Canada for Agribition, don't worry, I've got one already paid for for me by an Angus breeder in Scotland who has me contracted as his new breeding adviser. We're also heading to Argentina for the World Angus Secretariat. I'll also be travelling at his expense. I don't expect to buy anything there, but hey, it's a holiday. Nice work if you can get it. And the reason I can?  I get results for my customers. One I Irish breeder just got 37,000 for two bulls, bred from embryos I bought for him. They cost him 3,200 Euro, but they more than paid their way. This year he's ordered another 25!

Was this the same Code Red? Any pics?
Jude Benson, of Mullaghcor, Ballymote, on his Grand Champion Shorthorn at the recent Carrick-on-Shannon Bull Show & Sale in Ireland. The bull is a two year old son of Alta Cedar Code Red 24S.

 

[irishshorthorns]

Gavan Sensational, pictured out with the cows before he went to the sale. On grass, NO supplementary feeeding. Frame score 8. Weighed before he was sold, coming in at 1,009 KG.

 

[sue]

Gavan Sensational, pictured out with the cows before he went to the sale. On grass, NO supplementary feeeding. Frame score 8. Weighed before he was sold, coming in at 1,009 KG.

Perfect Jude... what do you have in a 8.5 frame??

 

[irishshorthorns]

Frame 8 isn't big enough for ya? We need size and scale to get weight and shape for the EUROP grading in the slaughter houses over here. We need size and most importantly length, with a big backend to get premium prices. We have to compete with the Limousins and Charolais. When half your calves are bulls you can't breed from them all. You have to steer a certain portion so your bull prices can be kept high. I usually steer 25%. They all go one way, and that's beef. A good Shorthorn steer, killing out at 65%, making a U grade at 16 months should net 1,700 Euro, providing the fat classification is within a certain range too. Unfortunately we don't get rewarded for marbling over here.

 

[sue]

Frame 8 isn't big enough for ya? We need size and scale to get weight and shape for the EUROP grading in the slaughter houses over here. We need size and most importantly length, with a big backend to get premium prices. We have to compete with the Limousins and Charolais. When half your calves are bulls you can't breed from them all. You have to steer a certain portion so your bull prices can be kept high. I usually steer 25%. They all go one way, and that's beef. A good Shorthorn steer, killing out at 65%, making a U grade at 16 months should net 1,700 Euro, providing the fat classification is within a certain range too. Unfortunately we don't get rewarded for marbling over here.

Nope. If you can export the genetics from Alta Cedar and Horseshoe out of Canada then I can't compete . I just dont offer that 8  frame and frankly do not know of any in the u.s that do. Sounds like you've got a good thing going.  Good luck with the bull.

 

[r.n.reed]

It is simply amazing to me that a program can supply genetics to the UK where they want an 8.5+ frame and send breeding stock to the U.S. as well where the trend has been to moderate for the last decade.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Mr Reed, if you want to compete in this cattle biz, your herd has to do it all! Like Wal Mart.  :-\

 

[Okotoks]

I am sorry that cow family identity has been lost for the most part in this breed and agree that the top ten families would depend on the direction of your breeding program.I own a bull Rosa's Commands 05 who is from the Rose Of Sharon cow family.The fountain head of this family was purchased in the Renick importation sale of 1836 by Abram Renick of Ky.who developed this line.

Is this the family derived from "The American Cow"?
Also are there any females around that would go back to a Bates Duchess in the female line?

 

[lucysmom]

This is a great thread.  I have a question - we have a heifer whose dam side is out of the Stout herd in OK.  Her sire  is Augusta Pride x Duchess. Is the lineage
more desirable coming from the dam side?  Earlier in the post there was discussion about great sires vs. cow families.  She is a nice heifer due to calve any time,
and is correct, nice bag, feminine, good capacity all the things you'd want in a female. At least as far as we can tell as she hasn't had to perform yet. We have high
hopes to really breed selectively for her second calf as long as she turns out.

 

[itk]

I don't think you can top the Augusta Pride family in this breed on a name recognition basis. Though IMO it would look better on the bottom side. Still having that cow family in the pedigree adds value. The Duchess family is also very popular, so I would say the top side is better then the bottom of her pedigree. That being said Stouts have been the home to some very famous cow families. I can't think of her name off the top of my head but the ASA photo cow for the longest time was from Stouts. To me it seems like your female at least has a solid pedigree and could be better then solid depending on the cow family.

 

[OH Breeder]

I am sorry that cow family identity has been lost for the most part in this breed and agree that the top ten families would depend on the direction of your breeding program.I own a bull Rosa's Commands 05 who is from the Rose Of Sharon cow family.The fountain head of this family was purchased in the Renick importation sale of 1836 by Abram Renick of Ky.who developed this line.

Is this the family derived from "The American Cow"?
Also are there any females around that would go back to a Bates Duchess in the female line?

Group of cattle that sold in KY and Ohio were imported 1835, 36 and 37 by the Ohio Company based in Chillicothe, OH, . Rose of Sharon cow family came from Belevedere, in England. Booth, Maynard, Bates and Clark also sent cattle.  Young Mary by Jupiter bred by Clark was imported at the same time.

Been reading a bunch on this recently. Great to find the roots of the shorthorns. Interesting RN REED you bring that up. I just read that story.

 

[r.n.reed]

Ohio Breeder,there is an old post here on steer planet called Felix Renick.It has a picture of the monument the ASA and Ohio association erected on the site of that first sale in 1836.Due to road construction it was moved to another location but is still on what was once the Felix Renick farm.The memorial has a likeness of the bull Avondale,the most famous son of Whitehall Sultan.Nasc deseves all the credit for finding it,I told him what I knew of it and he did all the detective work.
Okotoks, I can not tell you  if that Rose of Sharon line went through the American cow or not.I did not do the research but am basing it on the writings of Frank Haumont.The Rosa's Command 05 bull has since been sold to Roy Lovass.I have some excellant daughters and am using a son of one of them by 4508.I do not know if there are any Ducheses left or not.

 

[Doc]

I don't think you can top the Augusta Pride family in this breed on a name recognition basis. Though IMO it would look better on the bottom side. Still having that cow family in the pedigree adds value. The Duchess family is also very popular, so I would say the top side is better then the bottom of her pedigree. That being said Stouts have been the home to some very famous cow families. I can't think of her name off the top of my head but the ASA photo cow for the longest time was from Stouts. To me it seems like your female at least has a solid pedigree and could be better then solid depending on the cow family.

I think it was the Daisy Mae family , but might have been the Kitten.

 

[lucysmom]

Yes, I think you are correct.  She's Gussie May out of Ellie May, if memory serves.  I'd have to check the papers but she's a "May".  Or
possibly "Mae".  I knew her pedigree was pretty good, but it's nice to hear about such things from folks that know much more than we
do.

 

[OH Breeder]

Ohio Breeder,there is an old post here on steer planet called Felix Renick.It has a picture of the monument the ASA and Ohio association erected on the site of that first sale in 1836.Due to road construction it was moved to another location but is still on what was once the Felix Renick farm.The memorial has a likeness of the bull Avondale,the most famous son of Whitehall Sultan.Nasc deseves all the credit for finding it,I told him what I knew of it and he did all the detective work.
Okotoks, I can not tell you  if that Rose of Sharon line went through the American cow or not.I did not do the research but am basing it on the writings of Frank Haumont.The Rosa's Command 05 bull has since been sold to Roy Lovass.I have some excellant daughters and am using a son of one of them by 4508.I do not know if there are any Ducheses left or not.

I tried to pull that thread up and wouldn't work.
I found some really cool pics and this was one of my favorite cows from the book I was reading.

 

[Okotoks]

Ohio Breeder,there is an old post here on steer planet called Felix Renick.It has a picture of the monument the ASA and Ohio association erected on the site of that first sale in 1836.Due to road construction it was moved to another location but is still on what was once the Felix Renick farm.The memorial has a likeness of the bull Avondale,the most famous son of Whitehall Sultan.Nasc deseves all the credit for finding it,I told him what I knew of it and he did all the detective work.
Okotoks, I can not tell you  if that Rose of Sharon line went through the American cow or not.I did not do the research but am basing it on the writings of Frank Haumont.The Rosa's Command 05 bull has since been sold to Roy Lovass.I have some excellant daughters and am using a son of one of them by 4508.I do not know if there are any Ducheses left or not

I tried to pull that thread up and wouldn't work.

I can't get the Felix Renick thread to open ???
[/quote]
I found some really cool pics and this was one of my favorite cows from the book I was reading.
[/quote]

What a great cow! Does it say her background?

 

[sue]

I have to present a new twist to this cow family thread: 

Early cowherd tours I think I was chasing the "one" mama cow in each herd visited?  I feel there are so many "unadvertised" breeders that just breed and breed to make the whole herd look like "one". Gosh is that so bad - it's a incredible amount of dedication and probably as little politics involved as anything. One breeder using a unadvertised bull forever and ever to make a uniform group?
Post 2002 herd visits - here is what I remember:

Gellerman herd in Illinois- dont even know if the cattle are papered but boy howdy- udders on the mature females, depth of rib the works. 20 miles from Cagwins. Pretty sure that cow base was a waukauru carnagie son ? If you want a nice group of Black x sh cross alot of there. Sorry I asked at the end of the tour if they visited alot herds cuz they should feel proud.

Hugh Moore and sons-  they were almost ashamed to show me these "old " cows and in the process of "rebuilding" but I was trying to find the so called problems and could not?? Again at the end of the tour I asked if they toured any other herds recently - meaning do you really know how good you have it??

Elbee - really basic knowledge of linebreeding can be achieved with a overnite stay at Lees - if you chase growth and moderate it can still be achieved within a linebred herd like elbee - "you just have to get it" Try one of these bulls- not a female go and buy the bull?? Not sure they teach linebreeding anymore?

Here's one - Glenn Engelland - god father of linebreeding and has it all at a "arms length"  . Huge believer of line breeding and he may have one of the best line bred jg red cloud sons- or should I say the only ?? Again you "growthy/frame chasers" wont get it.

SBS Shorthorns- mentioned earlier in a post. I think they are hard core dedicated and probably builder of the breed  but dont advertise. beautiful part of Kansas. 

McElhaney Stock Farms- Here is one to see now.