Top 10 Shorthorn Cow Families

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r.n.reed

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Ex cellant post Dale.I found it fascinating that some of your cow families trace back to an original purchase from Robinwood Farms.From what I have read those guys were dominant in the showring in that era but put function first and kept both feet on the ground.I recently read an article written way back when by Earl Robbins where he poked holes in the pedigree's of some of the elite cattle of the time that were being touted as ''Pure Scotch'' the fad of that era.I wonder what he would write today about some of our asterisk free cattle today.
You raise some interesting points on the ability of some cow families to survive.Definitely the ability to produce females is a plus.The Haumont herd which is probably the only other herd as old as yours that has maintained continuous cow families has lost one family recently and has another hanging on by a thread.Both of these lines have produced few females over the generations.Interestingly they had more horned influence than the other families.
It would be interesting to go back in the pedigrees  on your cattle and see if some of the survivor's of type changes etc. had a different bull in their pedigree within the same cow family and  survived while others of the same tribe did not.
  I have noticed that the few times I have added outside females there has been a steep learning curve that few have survived.Different mgmt.feed etc.
 

Okotoks

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r.n.reed said:
Ex cellant post Dale.I found it fascinating that some of your cow families trace back to an original purchase from Robinwood Farms.From what I have read those guys were dominant in the showring in that era but put function first and kept both feet on the ground.I recently read an article written way back when by Earl Robbins where he poked holes in the pedigree's of some of the elite cattle of the time that were being touted as ''Pure Scotch'' the fad of that era.I wonder what he would write today about some of our asterisk free cattle today.
You raise some interesting points on the ability of some cow families to survive.Definitely the ability to produce females is a plus.The Haumont herd which is probably the only other herd as old as yours that has maintained continuous cow families has lost one family recently and has another hanging on by a thread.Both of these lines have produced few females over the generations.Interestingly they had more horned influence than the other families.
It would be interesting to go back in the pedigrees  on your cattle and see if some of the survivor's of type changes etc. had a different bull in their pedigree within the same cow family and  survived while others of the same tribe did not.
  I have noticed that the few times I have added outside females there has been a steep learning curve that few have survived.Different mgmt.feed etc.
I agree r.n. reed, Dale's post was very interesting I would sure like to read more about the history of your herd  Dale when you have time.
I also have to agree with your last comment on adding outside females, once you have a group of females working the new additions seem to have a harder time establishing themselves, probably partly due to selecting for one's environment.
The other point you make about purity is very valid, the good cattle discarded over the years in the rush to getting so called "pure" bloodlines has set the breed back numerous times.
 

r.n.reed

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Okotoks,was Barrington Rosette Maid a daughter of Helcam Rosette Speculation? Also I think the James Burns you mentioned managed the Hercules herd that alot of the Hilldale foundation came from.
 

Okotoks

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r.n.reed said:
Okotoks,was Barrington Rosette Maid a daughter of Helcam Rosette Speculation? Also I think the James Burns you mentioned managed the Hercules herd that alot of the Hilldale foundation came from.

No but there is some Helcam breeding in her! What can you tell me about the Helcam Rosette line, I am not familar with it? The following is the maternal line ancestors of Iford Maid.
I took the opportunity to write them done on one of my vissits to CLRC. Needless to say most of the ancestors of todays Maids are missing from this list except the direct line maternal but it gives some idea of their origins. It takes alot of paper when you get this many generations back!

Iford Maid 594519 D
Barrington Rosette Maid 560338 By Clydagh Macduff
Rotarian Rosette Maid     515088 By Helcam Rosette’s Leader 369200
Simcoe Haven Ada 460858 Dec.1952 By Helcam Rossette Fame 313234
Helcam Ada 355302 Jan.14 1946 By Spetisbury Rotarian 5th
Helcam Saxon Marda 319625 By Helcam Red Rover 242689
Helcam Saxon Maid 2nd 256803
Montvic Saxon Maid May 20, 1920 178485
Dame Dolly 113370 May 20, 1911
Dame Clara 113369 Apr. 1, 1908
Belle 49070 May 25, 1901
Josephine of Danville 33751
Red Princess 17920
Fair Maid of Hullett Second 9047
Fair Maid of Hullett 984
Second Fair Maid of Atha 983
Fair Maid of Atha 982
Eliza 954
Kate Kearney 1205
Countess Ninth 787
Countess Second 783
Countess First 782
Princess 419 May,1821 By son of Lancaster
Dam by a son of Windsor

See Vol 16 p11607 American Herd Book(not sure of that page number?)

 

Okotoks

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Does anyone know if mitochondrial lineage -- the maternal part of the genome, or the DNA that is passed exclusively from mothers to offspring could be responsible for some of the cow family traits that seem to keep being passed from one generation to the next?
 

librarian

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Knox County Nebraska
Hi guys,
JIT or others, do you recall Galloways at Louada Farms back in the 1960's?
I am researching the old pedigrees of the Anchor Galloway herd.
This Montana herd, owned by the Gibson's ,was the source of the first White Galloways registered in the USA. I saw the Louada name in this pedigree and, of course, remembered it as a Shorthorn herd. I thought Rothney raised both Galloways and Shorthorns, and wondered if Louda did as well. Thanks.
To catch up...I'm using a good red Galloway bull in 2020 with a Canadian sire. The Lincoln Red x Native bull I used last year will have Galloway cross calves on the ground this summer. Alternating Galloway and Native/Heritage Shorthorn sires still works best for me.
justintime said:
Back in the 60s, there was no major Junior shows to drive cattle sales, like they do today, but Louada was able to develop a similar atmosphere. Rather than grown ups trying to buy heifers for their kids and grand kids that they thought might win, grown ups competed between themselves, to buy the top bulls and females in the Louada sales. Many of the Louada sales had averages that would look great today. There were lots of animals selling for $10,000 -$20,000 with an occasional bull selling for more.
When I was 16 years old, I had the pleasure to go to Louada and stay with Wib Donaldson and his wife for 3 days. Gary Latimer( Remitall) and myself, delivered the first Polled Herefords to Louada. Louada still had it's Shorthorn herd, and I remember Denend Constellation was out breeding cows. The $30,000 Louada Bonaparte was still at the farm, as was the $19500 Louada Zenith who had topped the Louada sale a few months previous. Bonaparte had sold to Argentina and they were in the process of getting him ready for the trip there by boat. I remember the Louada farm being a show place and I have often wondered what happened to the farm after the Donaldson's passed away.It was one little piece of heaven on earth. There was a lake on one farm which had a beautiful guest house on it, that most people would love to live in forever. The fences were painted white and everything was pin neat. Louada was a place where many young cattle people from around the world went to learn about breeding cattle. I remember there being two young men from Argentina as well as two from Scotland, one from the US and one from Australia being employed at Louada on that visit. I also remember hearing that these employees were paid very little to work there, and their families paid their trips both ways. Most were sent to Louada just for work experience and the opportunity to work beside one of the great breeders of the day, before they returned to work on their own families breeding operations. I wonder how many kids today would agree to go work for next to nothing today, just for the experience. There are probably lots !

Louada was established by Louis Cadesky, who was a major league industrialist, who developed gold mines. The story goes that Cadesky had been bankrupt 8 times in his adult life, but he always had the best lawyers and accountants he could find working for him, so he was always able to re-establish himself. Wib Donaldson was Cadesky's farm manager, and when Cadesky died, Wib was gifted the Louada Farms. The name Louada was a combination of Louis and Ada Cadesky's names.

There was a time when you looked through a Shorthorn World ( the breed magazine before Shorthorn Country) there was hardly a page where there was not an ad that listed a Louada bull or a son of a Louada bull as a herd sire. Wib went on to develop a powerful Polled Hereford herd after the Shorthorns were dispersed, and it enjoys good success, however, it never achieved the status of the Shorthorn herd.

Getting back to the trip we made to Louada, I am oftentimes amazed when I think about it. Gary Latimer and I were both 16 years old and we had both just had our driver's licence a few short months. The morning after Remitall dispersed their Shorthorn herd, I remember Louis Latimer asking my dad if he would allow me to help Gary deliver cattle literally close to 2800 miles across Canada. For some reason my dad agreed to this, and I should ask him about that decision some day.( after all we were both only 16 years old) Gary and I left the following morning with a full load of cattle in a special built Fargo truck with a 34 ft box on it ( we found out later on that trip that the truck was 4 ft too long for legal driving in Ontario, when we were stopped by the police and held in custody for 4 hours while they decided what they were going to do with us... they eventually allowed us to leave as we were within 200 miles of the Ontario border, but they made us promise that we would never return to Ontario. I have broken that promise more than a few times since ).

The load consisted of both Shorthorns from the dispersal, and Polled Herefords going to Louada. We made several stops through Alberta and Saskatchewan at both Shorthorn and Polled Hereford farms. We bought cattle( mostly bulls) at almost every stop. Remitall had a policy of buying bulls from breeders who purchased herd bulls from them. They had a couple of bull dealers in Idaho and Oregon, that they shipped these bulls to, and they re-sold them. Some of the best bulls were retained and developed at Remitall and resold from there.  On the trip back to Alberta we stopped at these farms where we had purchased the cattle and loaded them, so we were literally full of cattle in both directions. I remember loading 5 Polled Hereford bred heifers at a well know breeder of the day, in Manitoba using a block and tackle that was connected to a chain that we hooked to a tractor. We backed the truck up to a manure pile and we haltered the heifers in the barn and pulled them to the truck with the tractor. Once we got them close enough we connected the block and tackle to the halter and hooked the tractor to the block and tackle. Once we got the front end of the heifers high enough we all got behind them and literally pushed and lifted them into the truck. This all took place while we had to keep the cattle in the truck from jumping out. If I remember correctly we were most part of an afternoon loading 5 heifers. Gary paid this guy for these heifer in cash, and I remember him telling him to use the money to build a loading chute.

Not only am I amazed that we made this trip when we were both 16 years old, but I am amazed that the entire trip was done in cash. There was no such thing as a credit card or a debit card in those days. I have no idea how much cash we were carrying, as we had enough to buy gas, meals, motels, repairs, and even paid cash for some of the cattle we purchased. Those were the good old days......
 

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knabe

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Okotoks said:
Does anyone know if mitochondrial lineage -- the maternal part of the genome, or the DNA that is passed exclusively from mothers to offspring could be responsible for some of the cow family traits that seem to keep being passed from one generation to the next?

yes.  the issue is what % responsible. to me, this attribution is overstated. it is my feeling that there are some unknown pathways, mechanisms not yet understood discovered that will be obvious many years from now as knowledge increases.

i can distinctly remember when we were sequencing the human genome how we thought there were many more genes than there ended up being, that we were going to cure most disease. this goes on with each new wave of technology. protein sequencing was supposed to be a big thing but died with a thud.

it's clear to me that there are multiple good types of animals. terminal, maternal, combo, size, ratio to calve besides just being an animal that looks pleasing. i think what's missing most is what animals combine good to result in a terminal cross, sorta like inbred lines in corn. animal scientist typically don't like that comparison.


not sure why, but after 300 years of persistent selection, there are still way too many animals that have a terrible phenotype that reasonable pressure should have minimized by now. maybe that's a faulty conclusion. i don't know.
 

Boreal

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Messages
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This is from Russel Horvey of Big Deal Galloways in Alberta:

Tyler I just looked in my Galloway herd books.  In the second herd book of the Canadian Galloway Association I found Galloways registered to Louada Manor Farms Ltd. of Peterborough, Ontario.  20  Galloways imported between June 1957 and December 1957.  They registered 12 Galloways between July 1958 & Jan 1960.  I could not find any additional Galloways owned or raised by Louada Farms in any of the other herd books between #1 & #4.  Is this the same Louada Farms with Shorthorns?.

Sounds like they weren’t at it for long.

Rothney definitely used both - I’ve got Shorthorns and Galloway that both trace back to Rothney. I’m using a grandson of a bull Rothney used in the 60s - Gilchristland Geordie 2nd.

librarian said:
Hi guys,
JIT or others, do you recall Galloways at Louada Farms back in the 1960's?
I am researching the old pedigrees of the Anchor Galloway herd.
This Montana herd, owned by the Gibson's ,was the source of the first White Galloways registered in the USA. I saw the Louada name in this pedigree and, of course, remembered it as a Shorthorn herd. I thought Rothney raised both Galloways and Shorthorns, and wondered if Louda did as well. Thanks.
To catch up...I'm using a good red Galloway bull now with a Canadian sire. The Lincoln Red x Native bull I was using grew up to be too dual purpose type for me ( leggy, light hind quarters, long head), so back to Galloway.
justintime said:
Back in the 60s, there was no major Junior shows to drive cattle sales, like they do today, but Louada was able to develop a similar atmosphere. Rather than grown ups trying to buy heifers for their kids and grand kids that they thought might win, grown ups competed between themselves, to buy the top bulls and females in the Louada sales. Many of the Louada sales had averages that would look great today. There were lots of animals selling for $10,000 -$20,000 with an occasional bull selling for more.
When I was 16 years old, I had the pleasure to go to Louada and stay with Wib Donaldson and his wife for 3 days. Gary Latimer( Remitall) and myself, delivered the first Polled Herefords to Louada. Louada still had it's Shorthorn herd, and I remember Denend Constellation was out breeding cows. The $30,000 Louada Bonaparte was still at the farm, as was the $19500 Louada Zenith who had topped the Louada sale a few months previous. Bonaparte had sold to Argentina and they were in the process of getting him ready for the trip there by boat. I remember the Louada farm being a show place and I have often wondered what happened to the farm after the Donaldson's passed away.It was one little piece of heaven on earth. There was a lake on one farm which had a beautiful guest house on it, that most people would love to live in forever. The fences were painted white and everything was pin neat. Louada was a place where many young cattle people from around the world went to learn about breeding cattle. I remember there being two young men from Argentina as well as two from Scotland, one from the US and one from Australia being employed at Louada on that visit. I also remember hearing that these employees were paid very little to work there, and their families paid their trips both ways. Most were sent to Louada just for work experience and the opportunity to work beside one of the great breeders of the day, before they returned to work on their own families breeding operations. I wonder how many kids today would agree to go work for next to nothing today, just for the experience. There are probably lots !

Louada was established by Louis Cadesky, who was a major league industrialist, who developed gold mines. The story goes that Cadesky had been bankrupt 8 times in his adult life, but he always had the best lawyers and accountants he could find working for him, so he was always able to re-establish himself. Wib Donaldson was Cadesky's farm manager, and when Cadesky died, Wib was gifted the Louada Farms. The name Louada was a combination of Louis and Ada Cadesky's names.

There was a time when you looked through a Shorthorn World ( the breed magazine before Shorthorn Country) there was hardly a page where there was not an ad that listed a Louada bull or a son of a Louada bull as a herd sire. Wib went on to develop a powerful Polled Hereford herd after the Shorthorns were dispersed, and it enjoys good success, however, it never achieved the status of the Shorthorn herd.

Getting back to the trip we made to Louada, I am oftentimes amazed when I think about it. Gary Latimer and I were both 16 years old and we had both just had our driver's licence a few short months. The morning after Remitall dispersed their Shorthorn herd, I remember Louis Latimer asking my dad if he would allow me to help Gary deliver cattle literally close to 2800 miles across Canada. For some reason my dad agreed to this, and I should ask him about that decision some day.( after all we were both only 16 years old) Gary and I left the following morning with a full load of cattle in a special built Fargo truck with a 34 ft box on it ( we found out later on that trip that the truck was 4 ft too long for legal driving in Ontario, when we were stopped by the police and held in custody for 4 hours while they decided what they were going to do with us... they eventually allowed us to leave as we were within 200 miles of the Ontario border, but they made us promise that we would never return to Ontario. I have broken that promise more than a few times since ).

The load consisted of both Shorthorns from the dispersal, and Polled Herefords going to Louada. We made several stops through Alberta and Saskatchewan at both Shorthorn and Polled Hereford farms. We bought cattle( mostly bulls) at almost every stop. Remitall had a policy of buying bulls from breeders who purchased herd bulls from them. They had a couple of bull dealers in Idaho and Oregon, that they shipped these bulls to, and they re-sold them. Some of the best bulls were retained and developed at Remitall and resold from there.  On the trip back to Alberta we stopped at these farms where we had purchased the cattle and loaded them, so we were literally full of cattle in both directions. I remember loading 5 Polled Hereford bred heifers at a well know breeder of the day, in Manitoba using a block and tackle that was connected to a chain that we hooked to a tractor. We backed the truck up to a manure pile and we haltered the heifers in the barn and pulled them to the truck with the tractor. Once we got them close enough we connected the block and tackle to the halter and hooked the tractor to the block and tackle. Once we got the front end of the heifers high enough we all got behind them and literally pushed and lifted them into the truck. This all took place while we had to keep the cattle in the truck from jumping out. If I remember correctly we were most part of an afternoon loading 5 heifers. Gary paid this guy for these heifer in cash, and I remember him telling him to use the money to build a loading chute.

Not only am I amazed that we made this trip when we were both 16 years old, but I am amazed that the entire trip was done in cash. There was no such thing as a credit card or a debit card in those days. I have no idea how much cash we were carrying, as we had enough to buy gas, meals, motels, repairs, and even paid cash for some of the cattle we purchased. Those were the good old days......
 

librarian

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Than You Boreal, that was great information. Just a few moments ago I was looking at Galloway pedigrees and saw that exact Gilchristland Geordie 2nd. In this instance he was the sire of a Rothney cow that was bred to a white Galloway bull, HK Iceberg. HK Iceberg was the sire of the Anchor cows that went to Lazer. So your bull must be a son of YY Geordie? That's really neat.
Those old time Shorthorn Breeders like the Cross family were smart. They had registered herds of Shorthorn and Galloway.
https://www.clrc.ca/search-registry/pedigree?_h=1&_lang=en&_breedcode=GA&_countrycode=USA&_regnumberprefix=&_regnumber=9&_regnumbersuffix=WG&_association=33
 

Boreal

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No problem. Yep - he’s a son of YY Geordie: YY emperor 778e. I’m using him on some brass ring females, as well as some half sib Geordie daughters. They’re certainly easy doing - could do with some more growth though. I’m aiming to linebreed Geordie, Brass Ring York and a big deal cow I have - Denice 5X.

I agree on the Shorthorn Galloway combo - they compliment each other so well in a number of ways. I guess that’s why the bluegreys enjoyed the popularity they did. The quality of Galloway cattle around here sure is hit and miss - although it’s recently gotten much better. It’s going to take some years to get a herd that breeds consistently. I’ve had better luck sourcing quality shorthorns.
 

librarian

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Boreal, I studied CLRC to see who owned the progeny of the Louada Galloways. Looks like, when Louada got out of Galloways, some of them went to the Rothney herd and others went to Netherbank. Netherbank was Ballyntine and that herd flowed into Decebe, which flowed into Diamond B. Its always interesting to follow these trails. Time and again we see it's not the breed that determines quality, it's the breeder. Thanks again for your help and Merry Christmas.
 

Boreal

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Louada must have had good Galloway cattle as they made their way through some pretty notable herds. Merry Christmas to you as well
 
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