Shootings!!! N/C

[RyanChandler]

That's not the same gun.  The gunman used an AR-15. While the ammos are interchangeable, they aren't the same.

You do realize that both 'Glock' and 'Sig Sauer' are BRANDS of firearms and don't signify anything in terms of magnitude, right?

I've shot several deer with the big boy version, the AR-10, of the rifle you posted.  Don't tell me what I can hunt with when, based on your Glock and Sig comment, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[redwingfarm]

X-Bar, I grant that you may "hunt" differently that is done in Ohio, but here "deer" are hunted with traditional shotguns and bows, not with high power assault weapons with high capacity magazines.  This whole discussion on personal responsibility is great and I would agree we all mustanswer for what we each do,  HOWEVER is it really a constitutional right to be armed in a manner beyond what many National Guard units are armed?
Lets start by BANNING high capacity magazines, and what most reasonable people would describe as Assault  weapons, you can dance around any description you want , but frankly it is like pornography- hard to define in words but we all know it when we see it.
Secondly a ban on people with mental problems owning any guns of any kind, unless all of their relatives take full responsibility for their actions and will be willing to accept the consequences themselves personally.
All banned weapons should be turned into police and the person should be compensated for the item based on a legitimate receipt from its purchase, all weapons turned in without a matching receipt will be paid at a slightly lower but reasonably fair price

I know, I know "it wasn't the gun that killed all of the people but rather the shooter of the weapon,  HOWEVER making such weapons basically designed for 1 legitimate purpose-KILLING OTHER PEOPLE- so readily available that basically anyone can get them is just a lot stupid,  We need to be smarter than that

We as a society need to make assault weapon ownership as social unacceptable as smoking, drunk driving and spousal abuse, we need to be something much better and safer than a "gun society"
I know, I know "Oh my what will we do if the bad guys break into our home if we don't have an AK 47 to protect ourselves, what will we do, oh my"
Have a home security system, lock your doors with good locks, own a dog that will bark not lick
Gun ownership is a right, but really ask your self do you really need something with a 30 round clip? really how do you cook deer with 30 rounds in the meat?
This discussion needs to be about SENSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP not being able to be the next Rambo

 

[knabe]

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/beltway-confidential

How do we cross reference databases of gun ownership and autistic people in the house or whatever affliction.

How will we write laws about pre-knowing who will commit a crime and take them off the streets.

Should goth clothing put people on a terrorist watch list?

Should semi auto be outlawed?  Shoe quick loaders for revolvers be outlawed.

Should cars be outlawed.

Should abortion be outlawed?  Many of the people who are crying for outlaw of guns for some reason have no apparent problem with killing younger life and demand that in all cases it's only about a woman's body.

Slippery slope.

Be careful of the larger agenda and not letting a good crisis go to waste as Rham Emmanuel likes to say.

 

[redwingfarm]

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/beltway-confidential

How do we cross reference databases of gun ownership and autistic people in the house or whatever affliction.
lIf you allow someone who is mentally challenged access to weapons then you should have to stand the consequences of their actions
How will we write laws about pre-knowing who will commit a crime and take them off the streets.

Should goth clothing put people on a terrorist watch list?
no need to worry about goths, don't think that many of our "friends in the middle east wear gothShould semi auto be outlawed?  Shoe quick loaders for revolvers be outlawed.

Should cars be outlawed.
Drunk driving has been both outlawed and made very socially unacceptable, seatbelt laws are there to help make us safer, just as a real honest approach as to which weapons would be legal should be
Should abortion be outlawed?  Many of the people who are crying for outlaw of guns for some reason have no apparent problem with killing younger life and demand that in all cases it's only about a woman's body.
Abortion whether legal or not is a great sadness that society must bear, maybe more time could be spent on preventing the things that lead to people making the decision to abort
Slippery slope.

Be careful of the larger agenda and not letting a good crisis go to waste as Rham Emmanuel likes to say.

Yes it is a slippery slope however maybe we a reasonable society need to look past what our own gut reaction is and look at what might make society in general safer,  I HONESSTLY BELIEVE THAT 30 ROUND CLIPS DON'T MAKE US SAFER

 

[knabe]

Oops. 18 dead from a knife in china.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/14/1169915/-22-Kids-Hurt-in-China-with-A-Knife-18-Kids-Killed-in-America-with-a-Gun

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

Couldn't find if these are recent or the same one.

Where are the kardashians.

 

[RyanChandler]

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/beltway-confidential

How do we cross reference databases of gun ownership and autistic people in the house or whatever affliction.
lIf you allow someone who is mentally challenged access to weapons then you should have to stand the consequences of their actions
How will we write laws about pre-knowing who will commit a crime and take them off the streets.

Should goth clothing put people on a terrorist watch list?
no need to worry about goths, don't think that many of our "friends in the middle east wear gothShould semi auto be outlawed?  Shoe quick loaders for revolvers be outlawed.

Should cars be outlawed.
Drunk driving has been both outlawed and made very socially unacceptable, seatbelt laws are there to help make us safer, just as a real honest approach as to which weapons would be legal should be
Should abortion be outlawed?  Many of the people who are crying for outlaw of guns for some reason have no apparent problem with killing younger life and demand that in all cases it's only about a woman's body.
Abortion whether legal or not is a great sadness that society must bear, maybe more time could be spent on preventing the things that lead to people making the decision to abort
Slippery slope.

Be careful of the larger agenda and not letting a good crisis go to waste as Rham Emmanuel likes to say.

Yes it is a slippery slope however maybe we a reasonable society need to look past what our own gut reaction is and look at what might make society in general safer,  I HONESSTLY BELIEVE THAT 30 ROUND CLIPS DON'T MAKE US SAFER

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Ben Franklin

 

[chambero]

A little gun education is in store here.

The "assault" rifle used in this case and most of the other mass shootings aren't "high-powered" rifles.  They are actually quite small - .223 caliber to be exact. These weapons are semiautomatic - they shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger.  .223 caliber rifles are illegal to hunt deer with in many states because they are considered too small.  These types of rifles are commonly used to hunt varmints - pigs and coyotes - but that's it.  The U.S. military uses .223 caliber rifles specifically because the ammunition is lighter to carry around and they tend to wound and not kill.  People using these weapons are not better armed than the military.  Military versions usually have full automatic capability - although that is rarely used due to inaccuracy.

There are relatively few semiautomatic, "high-powered" rifles sold - .270 caliber and above.  Semiautomatics generally aren't as accurate and much more trouble prone.  Those that are have magazines that hold a maximum of 5 - usually 3 - rounds.  Same thing with semiautomatic shotguns in regards to magazine capacity.

You can't stop people from going in and shooting up schools or other public places.  You just can't.  What you can do is put things in place to keep them from making it so easy to kill dozens of victims at once.  All classrooms need to be able to go into "lockdown" mode - where doors can be locked from the inside - maybe even automatically from a principals office.  We need to hire REAL security guards for every school just like you hire a kindergarten teacher.  It's gonna cost us, but its a bill worth paying.  

If a gun control law could be passed to lessen the chance of this kind of thing happening, I wouldn't oppose it.  But they flat won't work.  These guns are out there, there's no way to get them back, and if you could, these evil people would use something else.  Many of you are right - there isn't really a valid need for the high capacity magazines.  But they have banned once several years ao and it didn't change much. 

 

[chambero]

I consider myself a devout Christian, but I don't send my kids to school to learn religion - that's what home and church is for.  Schools don't have time to teach them what they need to learn as it is. 

We jump to way too many assumptions about the upbringing of people that commit these acts.  I believe that the people that commit these acts are evil and/or irretreivably mentally ill.  It's not always just a case of bad upbringing, etc. I have a personal example.

I have a coworker - who is very normal, Christian, etc. - who has what is apparently a "broken" child.  If the dad could support his family that way he'd prefer to be a preacher.  The kid is 5 or 6 years old  He and his wife literally have to lock their infant daughters room at night for fear of the 5 year old killing it.  He has been thrown out of daycare centers and now elementary schools. They have brought him up to our office and I've personally seen what on the outside looks like a normal kid "flip the switch" and go nuts for want of a better term.  They take him to counseling, had him medicated, etc.  They have used corporal punishment, etc.  Nothing works.  What do you do in this situation?  If you owned an animal like this you would have it destroyed.  Our society really doesn't have a mechanism for dealing with these kinds of individuals.  This is the only case like this I've personally seen, but my first thought is "future mass murderer".  What's the answer?  The kid is taken to church, disciplined, counseled, prayed over, etc.  The reality is he's just fundamentally broken.

 

[RyanChandler]

I consider myself a devout Christian, but I don't send my kids to school to learn religion - that's what home and church is for.  Schools don't have time to teach them what they need to learn as it is.  

We jump to way too many assumptions about the upbringing of people that commit these acts.  I believe that the people that commit these acts are evil and/or irretrievably mentally ill.  It's not always just a case of bad upbringing, etc. I have a personal example.

I have a coworker - who is very normal, Christian, etc. - who has what is apparently a "broken" child.  If the dad could support his family that way he'd prefer to be a preacher.  The kid is 5 or 6 years old  He and his wife literally have to lock their infant daughters room at night for fear of the 5 year old killing it.  He has been thrown out of daycare centers and now elementary schools. They have brought him up to our office and I've personally seen what on the outside looks like a normal kid "flip the switch" and go nuts for want of a better term.  They take him to counseling, had him medicated, etc.  They have used corporal punishment, etc.  Nothing works.  What do you do in this situation?  If you owned an animal like this you would have it destroyed.  Our society really doesn't have a mechanism for dealing with these kinds of individuals.  This is the only case like this I've personally seen, but my first thought is "future mass murderer".  What's the answer?  The kid is taken to church, disciplined, counseled, prayed over, etc.  The reality is he's just fundamentally broken.

How can you inflict violence upon a child and expect them not to have violent responses?  This simulates nothing in "the real world." I've never understood the logic behind inflicted physical pain on another much less a child.  What separates us as humans from the rest of the animal kingdom is 1) empathy and 2) our ability to reason.  You don't need to inflict pain on animals that have the ability to reason to get them to do what you want.  Sit down your "spare the rod" mantra and think about it.  

 

[knabe]

What separates us as humans from the rest of the animal kingdom is 1) empathy and 2) our ability to reason.  You don't need to inflict pain on animals that have the ability to reason to get them to do what you want.  Sit down your "spare the rod" mantra and think about it.  

so how do we identify those that have no empathy or ability to reason and what do we do with them?  think about it.

 

[RyanChandler]

What separates us as humans from the rest of the animal kingdom is 1) empathy and 2) our ability to reason.  You don't need to inflict pain on animals that have the ability to reason to get them to do what you want.  Sit down your "spare the rod" mantra and think about it.  

so how do we identify those that have no empathy or ability to reason and what do we do with them?  think about it.

These measures are already in place. They should be evaluated by a psychiatrist and if found to be insane, ordered to a mental facility.

 

[knabe]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/calls-for-more-gun-control-only-feed-the-gun-culture-that-liberals-fear/article/2516148?custom_click=rss#.UM-mL6V5n8t

which is why they need a bigger and bigger tragedy and will push violence on tv an movies as part of an overall strategy to get it.

accepting they could use retired cops in schools with guns is just really not an option for them.  maybe if we added it in a stimulus bill, they would go for it.

 

[knabe]

These measures are already in place. They should be evaluated by a psychiatrist and if found to be insane, ordered to a mental facility.

the key one is NOT in place.  i guess the problem for me is that democrats think repbulicans have no empathy and ability to reason and vice versa.

 

[RyanChandler]

These measures are already in place. They should be evaluated by a psychiatrist and if found to be insane, ordered to a mental facility.

the key one is NOT in place.  i guess the problem for me is that democrats think repbulicans have no empathy and ability to reason and vice versa.

Well, when one identifies 'the supernatural' as the culprit of a tragedy, I can see how that conclusion could be formed. 

 

[RyanChandler]

  .223 caliber to be exact.

5.56mm to be exact.

I consider myself a devout Christian, but I don't send my kids to school to learn religion - that's what home and church is for.  Schools don't have time to teach them what they need to learn as it is. 

We jump to way too many assumptions about the upbringing of people that commit these acts.  I believe that the people that commit these acts are evil and/or irretreivably mentally ill.  It's not always just a case of bad upbringing, etc. I have a personal example.

I have a coworker - who is very normal, Christian, etc. - who has what is apparently a "broken" child.  If the dad could support his family that way he'd prefer to be a preacher.  The kid is 5 or 6 years old  He and his wife literally have to lock their infant daughters room at night for fear of the 5 year old killing it.  He has been thrown out of daycare centers and now elementary schools. They have brought him up to our office and I've personally seen what on the outside looks like a normal kid "flip the switch" and go nuts for want of a better term.  They take him to counseling, had him medicated, etc.  They have used corporal punishment, etc.  Nothing works.  What do you do in this situation?  If you owned an animal like this you would have it destroyed.  Our society really doesn't have a mechanism for dealing with these kinds of individuals.  This is the only case like this I've personally seen, but my first thought is "future mass murderer".  What's the answer?  The kid is taken to church, disciplined, counseled, prayed over, etc.  The reality is he's just fundamentally broken.

As a devout Christian, would you go as far as to say, "he was born that way?"

 

[chambero]

Xbar- I'm having a real hard time figuring the intent behind your responses to my posts.  I was pretty much agreeing with your original posts.

But you make it obvious you think people with religous beliefs are categorically dumbasses.  I think spoiled high school baseball stars who werent quite as good as they thought they were, went to college and partied too hard, and now think they are smarter than everyone are dumbasses too.

But in answer to your question, I think this kid must have been born that way.  Nothing I can detect "wrong" with how the parents have tried to raise him.  The kid hasnt been beaten mercilessly which is what you apparently read into my post.  I'm guessing you are about to tell me how that conclusion conflicts with my religous beliefs.

 

[RyanChandler]

Xbar- I'm having a real hard time figuring the intent behind your responses to my posts.  I was pretty much agreeing with your original posts.

But you make it obvious you think people with religous beliefs are categorically dumbasses.  I think spoiled high school baseball stars who werent quite as good as they thought they were, went to college and partied too hard, and now think they are smarter than everyone are dumbasses too.

But in answer to your question, I think this kid must have been born that way.  Nothing I can detect "wrong" with how the parents have tried to raise him.  The kid hasnt been beaten mercilessly which is what you apparently read into my post.  I'm guessing you are about to tell me how that conclusion conflicts with my religous beliefs.

I was just tryin to pick your brain Chambo- didn't have any spiteful intentions or anything.  Many of the prior posters stated "God doesn't create bad people- that you are only born with free will and if you do bad, it was because of a conscious decision to do so."  You clearly stated the kid was just fundamentally broken.  I agree! Crazies exist!  Many on here do not...and if they do believe they exist, they believe they act that way because of an evil demon- not because of any predisposed mental condition.  You categorized yourself, and because of that, I ask your opinion from that perspective.

Your memorys sharp as a tack though

 

[chambero]

I was grinnin when I typed it

Thought you completely missed the point I was trying to make.

Hated to see Pottsboro get beat a few weeks ago.  Thought yall had a chance to go all the way.

 

[RyanChandler]

I was grinnin when I typed it

Thought you completely missed the point I was trying to make.

Hated to see Pottsboro get beat a few weeks ago.  Thought yall had a chance to go all the way.

Life is so much funner w/ a grin!... even though most of mine are ****eatin ;D

Me too! I drove to Paris to watch em play and was pretty disappointed.  Im the biggest Coach Poe fan in the world but after that pooch kick was returned for a TD, I was pretty hot. There was no reason not to kick it deep! O well- live by the sword, die by the sword.  

 

[knabe]

Well, when one identifies 'the supernatural as the culprit of a tragedy, I can see how that conclusion could be formed. 

My point is who gets to define ability to reason.

If we are now going to take people off the streets due to the inability to reason, we might want to think about some safeguards for accuracy.

Not sure we as a society have enough wisdom to allow some mistakes the other way.

I sense another forum for PC to run amuck.

We might put boo Radley in prison