Shootings!!! N/C

[knabe]

I frankly am tired of the constant barrage  of government and media "support" and "emotional" outpouring and manipulation and taking advantage of tradgedy for political and commercial purpose. They act like human life is the most precios thing ever but never even the remotest peep about aborted humans.

They are essentially acting as family. They play amazing grace over and over and then immediately transition to gun laws.

You don't need a gun to kill a baby.

I call fake.

 

[Gargan]

I frankly am tired of the constant barrage  of government and media "support" and "emotional" outpouring and manipulation and taking advantage of tradgedy Tito political and commercial purpose. They act like human life is the most precios thing ever but never even the remotest peep about aborted humans.

They are essentially acting as family. They play amazing grace over and over and then immediately transition to gun laws.

You don't need a gun to kill a baby.

I call fake.

  Right on!

 

[DiamondMCattle]

Extremely inspiration post game press conference by Pat Kelsey Winthrop basketball coach.

"The last thing I wanna say is I'm really, really lucky, 'cause I'm gonna get on an eight-hour bus ride, and I'm gonna arrive in Rock Hill, S.C., and I'm gonna walk into my house, and I'm gonna walk upstairs, and I'm gonna walk into two pink rooms, OK, with a 5-year-old and a 4-year-old laying in that pink room, with a bunch of teddy bears laying in that room.

"And I'm gonna give them the biggest hug and the biggest kiss I've ever given them. And there's 20 families in Newtown, Conn., that are walking into a pink room with a bunch of teddy bears with nobody laying in those beds. And it's tragic.

"And I don't know what needs to be done. I'm not smart enough to know what needs to be done, OK? I know this country's got issues. Is it a gun issue? Is it a mental illness issue? Or is it a society that has lost the fact, the understanding, that decent human values are important?

"And our leaders -- I didn't vote for President Obama. But you know what? He's my president now. He's my leader. I need him to step up. Mr. Boehner, the Speaker of the House, he's a Xavier guy, he's a Cincinnati guy, OK, he needs to step up.

"Parents, teachers, rabbis, priests, coaches, everybody needs to step up. This has to be a time for change. And I know this microphone's powerful right now, because we're playing the fourth-best team in the country. I'm not going to have a microphone like this the rest of the year, maybe the rest of my life.

"And I'm going to be an agent of change with the 13 young men I get to coach every day and the two little girls that I get to raise. But hopefully things start changing, because it's really, really disappointing.

"I'm proud to grow up American. I'm proud to say I'm part of the greatest country ever. And that's got to stay that way. And it'll stay that way if we change. But we gotta change."

 

[bryan6807]

Remember the mind-set of the Founders when they wrote the Constitution. They had just fought a bloody war against a King; a King who was an absolute monarch; a King who could silence whomever he wished, take whatever property he coveted, and impose whatever law he wanted; he could regulate any behavior, tax any event, reach deeply into any life, and take away anyone’s rights; not because he had the moral authority to do so--no government does--but because his soldiers were obedient and they had guns. All this monarchical power was repugnant to the Framers; and essentially, they wrote the Constitution to assure that no government here would do to Americans what the King had done to the colonists.

 

[shortyjock89]

It didn't all fall back on the King though, did it? Parliament made the laws, imposed the taxes, passed the tariffs, and made life hell for not only Americans, but the other colonies that the Empire controlled.  

It would also do to say that most of the Founding Fathers were at the very most Agnostic, and many were out and out Atheist. Nowhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution does it say that we are a Christian nation.  The United States of America was founded on the freedom to pray to whomever you wish, or to not pray at all. To pursue whatever craft or means of employment as you would so choose, so long as it did not infringe upon another's rights. And also to be happy in your pursuits and worship, free from fear of persecution from your government.

Also- Romans 13:1:  "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God.  Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

If you take that word for word, our country was literally conceived in a sinful manner. And everyone who was involved with the signing of the Magna Carta was also guilty of this sin. So think about that, some parts of the Bible are there to just make people obedient sheeple, and that is what I cannot agree or subscribe to.

 

[GONEWEST]

Nate- The grey area between human beings and monkeys are all extinct now.  Some examples include Homo habilis, Homo ergaster, Australopithecus africanus, and several other species within those and other genus'.  I did a bit of study on human evolution in high school and college, thinking I would like to pursue that as a career choice.  Quite a few of the extinct species could have been absorbed into more dominant species that lived at the same time.  Some findings show that Homo Neanderthalensis was absorbed by Homo Sapiens as the two species lived alongside one another.  We don't have as much information the further back we do in the fossil record, but the evidence is really quite extensive if you care to look at it.

Also, chimpanzees and other apes did not necessarily pre-date the first hominidae. There is significant evidence for a common ancestor, and there was a split there. Our ancestors were more apt to walk the ground, which led to many evolutionary traits; such as the ability to run for extended amounts of time, more tool usage than all other apes, sophisticated hunting techniques, and language.  Chimpanzees' ancestors stayed more in the trees, and followed in more of a straight evolutionary line compared to ours since there were less environmental variances among other pressures.

I am pretty sure the "missing link" is actually Bigfoot. They're everywhere, you know. If you go here, http://www.bfro.net/, you can see if anyone has reported seeing one near you. There are reports not long ago from someone seeing one near the junior college I attended. It's difficult to understand why no one has ever found a dead one, or hit one with a car as many as is seems there are. But if we could just get our hands on a Bigfoot, some say it would be the common ancestor between man and the apes.  Somewhere on that page it tells you how you too can become an "Squatcher" and help find the last remaining common ancestor of the two species . If only we could get our hands on the rascally varmint.......

 

[shortyjock89]

Phil, my sister and I had a very interesting talk about the 'squatch just the other day.

She wonders why all these sightings are during the day, but they can only be hunted at night?

I've heard that porcupines eat the bones of the sasquatch, and that's why we haven't found any yet. 

I'd be highly surprised if the sasquatch did exist, but I suppose I can't dismiss it out of hand. The 'squatch hunters do have the burden of proof though.  (lol)

 

[justintime]

The events of last week in that Conneticut school were tragic, and I have heard many many accounts of why it happened and what needs to happen to prevent it from happening again. This was a tragic day.... a very terrible event, and we probably will never know why this man decided that this would be a great way out for him. We can turn this thread into a debate of our religious beliefs, but I don't think that will solve this issue. I have very strong religious beliefs as do many others, but I don't think this event occurred because of anyone's belief or non belief. The media have made this event into a gong show, and some of it made me sick. I think I had about had my fill of our do-good media, was when I saw a reporter interviewing a grade 1 child shortly after this happened, and the child comments that his own parents had not arrived at the scene yet. The media seem to have to race to be the first to report most anything, and as a result, lots of inaccurate reports occured.

How do we ever know what went on in this man's head to do this? If he was suffering from some sort of mental illness, then that topic needs to be addressed. But I am also reminded of a quote made by the Ronald Reagan, who was in my opinion, one of the greatest leaders the US ever had.
He said "  We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his own actions." Ronald Reagan.

I pray that another terrible event like this will never happen again, but deep inside I know it probably will. Arming teachers with guns is not an answer. I have to wonder what might have happened to me, if some of my teachers had been packing heat? I suspect I would have been long gone, and they would just be getting out on parole about now!

 

[knabe]

You have more faith in Sasquatch than god.

I guess u can't dismiss him out of hand.

He's holding out his hand for you.

 

[shortyjock89]

No, not out of hand. But no, I don't believe in Sasquatch or any other living missing links.  But I cannot say 100% that there is no living missing link.  I also cannot say 100%, beyond a doubt in my little mind, that there is no God. I don't believe in one though. I also don't believe in unicorns or flying spaghetti monsters. But if somebody brought me a living specimen, I would have little choice but to change my stance.  

I am a faithless heathen. Woe unto anyone who befriend this unholy beast.

JIT- I agree that the media is terrible and they are vultures.  When people directly bring God into the conversation, or lack thereof, and just paste over all other facets of an argument with "if only this country had more faith" is when I get inflamed. It has little and less to do with faith than it does simple human morals.  Compassion and reason were both bestowed upon us by evolution or God, whichever you believe (and I don't mind one bit which anyone believes, to each their own).  I also don't like when people trumpet the praises of our founding fathers as staunch Christians and how this country was built on solely Christianity, because it was not.

 

[bryan6807]

It didn't all fall back on the King though, did it? Parliament made the laws, imposed the taxes, passed the tariffs, and made life hell for not only Americans, but the other colonies that the Empire controlled.  

It would also do to say that most of the Founding Fathers were at the very most Agnostic, and many were out and out Atheist. Nowhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution does it say that we are a Christian nation.  The United States of America was founded on the freedom to pray to whomever you wish, or to not pray at all. To pursue whatever craft or means of employment as you would so choose, so long as it did not infringe upon another's rights. And also to be happy in your pursuits and worship, free from fear of persecution from your government.

Also- Romans 13:1:  "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God.  Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

If you take that word for word, our country was literally conceived in a sinful manner. And everyone who was involved with the signing of the Magna Carta was also guilty of this sin. So think about that, some parts of the Bible are there to just make people obedient sheeple, and that is what I cannot agree or subscribe to.

I made no mention of religion in my post, yet you attack it. enough with attacking religion. That is all that you and XBAR debate on. XBAR, as a fellow Libertarian, I agree with you most of the time, but stop attacking religion. Olson, if you want to actually learn the true meaning of Romans 13, read the book Romans 13 by Chuck Baldwin. The bottom line is our Government is out of control, What happened was a tragedy and I see a few red flags with the stories coming out, and to attack our 2nd amendment will start another civil war.

 

[GONEWEST]

It didn't all fall back on the King though, did it? Parliament made the laws, imposed the taxes, passed the tariffs, and made life hell for not only Americans, but the other colonies that the Empire controlled.  

It would also do to say that most of the Founding Fathers were at the very most Agnostic, and many were out and out Atheist. Nowhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution does it say that we are a Christian nation.  The United States of America was founded on the freedom to pray to whomever you wish, or to not pray at all. To pursue whatever craft or means of employment as you would so choose, so long as it did not infringe upon another's rights. And also to be happy in your pursuits and worship, free from fear of persecution from your government.

Also- Romans 13:1:  "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God.  Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

If you take that word for word, our country was literally conceived in a sinful manner. And everyone who was involved with the signing of the Magna Carta was also guilty of this sin. So think about that, some parts of the Bible are there to just make people obedient sheeple, and that is what I cannot agree or subscribe to.

Justin, you are my friend. I have absolutely zero problems with you believing what ever you want to believe,  so there is no way I would do this to you in public. But if you were to be in a real debate, like a trial, or a debate that was scored, well....... You ever see meat go through a sausage machine? That's what I would do to you.  The scripture you quote, you pick  sentences out of paragraphs out of chapters out of books. And try some how to present that as a factual representation of that scripture. You pick phrases and parts of things that would seem to support your beliefs instead of the whole body of work, in which you have context.

Now as for your history quote, you got the wrong person to debate on history,too. And this " It would also do to say that most of the Founding Fathers were at the very most Agnostic, and many were out and out Atheist." is quite possibly the most ignorant sentence ever written on steer planet. It's one you have been taught by some history teacher and took to be the truth with out questioning it. I am not sure whom you would call a "founding father". but if you would like I can quote you writings from people like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Samuel Adams, Ben Franklin, Richard Henry Lee, converted anti-religious zealot and Diest Thomas Payne, and the Continental Congress would you consider those men founding fathers?

On the afternoon of July 4, 1776, after passing the Declaration of Independence,  the Continental Congress appointed Ben Franklin, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson to come up with a "Public Face" of the United States. See if you can find out whom they chose and why. While you are at it, see if you can find out who ordered the first English language bibles to be printed in the US and what the purpose of their printing was for. And just for gits and shiggles, see if you can uncover what 65-70% of the total budget George Washington had to work with as President was earmarked for. It's totally unrelated, but it might be insightful as well.

I have no animosity toward you AT ALL for your beliefs, that you hold for what ever reason, even no reason at all. But when you espouse things as facts as reasons for your positions that are not indeed fact...............not so cool.

Want to try me on American history Justin? Go ahead, make my day  ;D

 

[knabe]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/scienceonreligion/2012/12/why-atheist-scientists-bring-their-children-to-church/

 

[knabe]

Bath school disaster. 1927. 

 

[comercialfarmer]

It didn't all fall back on the King though, did it? Parliament made the laws, imposed the taxes, passed the tariffs, and made life hell for not only Americans, but the other colonies that the Empire controlled.  

It would also do to say that most of the Founding Fathers were at the very most Agnostic, and many were out and out Atheist. Nowhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution does it say that we are a Christian nation.  The United States of America was founded on the freedom to pray to whomever you wish, or to not pray at all. To pursue whatever craft or means of employment as you would so choose, so long as it did not infringe upon another's rights. And also to be happy in your pursuits and worship, free from fear of persecution from your government.

Also- Romans 13:1:  "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God.  Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

If you take that word for word, our country was literally conceived in a sinful manner. And everyone who was involved with the signing of the Magna Carta was also guilty of this sin. So think about that, some parts of the Bible are there to just make people obedient sheeple, and that is what I cannot agree or subscribe to.

Justin, you are my friend. I have absolutely zero problems with you believing what ever you want to believe,  so there is no way I would do this to you in public. But if you were to be in a real debate, like a trial, or a debate that was scored, well....... You ever see meat go through a sausage machine? That's what I would do to you.  The scripture you quote, you pick  sentences out of paragraphs out of chapters out of books. And try some how to present that as a factual representation of that scripture. You pick phrases and parts of things that would seem to support your beliefs instead of the whole body of work, in which you have context.

Now as for your history quote, you got the wrong person to debate on history,too. And this " It would also do to say that most of the Founding Fathers were at the very most Agnostic, and many were out and out Atheist." is quite possibly the most ignorant sentence ever written on steer planet. It's one you have been taught by some history teacher and took to be the truth with out questioning it. I am not sure whom you would call a "founding father". but if you would like I can quote you writings from people like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Samuel Adams, Ben Franklin, Richard Henry Lee, converted anti-religious zealot and Diest Thomas Payne, and the Continental Congress would you consider those men founding fathers?

On the afternoon of July 4, 1776, after passing the Declaration of Independence,  the Continental Congress appointed Ben Franklin, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson to come up with a "Public Face" of the United States. See if you can find out whom they chose and why. While you are at it, see if you can find out who ordered the first English language bibles to be printed in the US and what the purpose of their printing was for. And just for gits and shiggles, see if you can uncover what 65-70% of the total budget George Washington had to work with as President was earmarked for. It's totally unrelated, but it might be insightful as well.

I have no animosity toward you AT ALL for your beliefs, that you hold for what ever reason, even no reason at all. But when you espouse things as facts as reasons for your positions that are not indeed fact...............not so cool.

Want to try me on American history Justin? Go ahead, make my day  ;D

Correct!    (clapping)   Make your decision, but don't falsify supporting evidence.  


I enjoy a good debate and am sad I have missed so much of this one.  I jumped ahead to see where it was and will need to back a little.

I do have a question for you Olson:   Philosophically, do you believe that murder of these children was inherently evil?  ( such as immoral, wicked- not  asking if was performed by Evil the noun)

 

[vanridge]

The events of last week in that Conneticut school were tragic, and I have heard many many accounts of why it happened and what needs to happen to prevent it from happening again. This was a tragic day.... a very terrible event, and we probably will never know why this man decided that this would be a great way out for him. We can turn this thread into a debate of our religious beliefs, but I don't think that will solve this issue. I have very strong religious beliefs as do many others, but I don't think this event occurred because of anyone's belief or non belief. The media have made this event into a gong show, and some of it made me sick. I think I had about had my fill of our do-good media, was when I saw a reporter interviewing a grade 1 child shortly after this happened, and the child comments that his own parents had not arrived at the scene yet. The media seem to have to race to be the first to report most anything, and as a result, lots of inaccurate reports occured.

Speaking from personal experience the media does not repect a grieving family's wishes at all. They will phone around and come to your town and see if they can find a juicy story. The fact that someone is grieving the loss of a loved means nothing to them except ratings if they can get the juicy scoop. I have never understood how or why people talk to the media after they have lost someone.  Not only do you have to deal with losing someone special, you have to deal with stories and reports built on hearsay, false reports and miss quotes. I wish they would leave the families in Conneticut alone, so they can deal with their grief and loss and not feel like they are being used as a props for someone's agenda.

 

[shortyjock89]

Hey Phil, in the last few sentences in your first paragraph to me there, couldn't you say that many, MANY Christians do the exact same thing?

And no doubt you are better at American History than I am, you know more about it than almost anyone I know.  But I didn't learn that from a teacher, I've done a good bit of my own research on the subject as well.  I you'd like to quote Thomas Jefferson in favor of Christianity, I could do so in favor of Agnosticism as well.  That's not really the point though, is it? 

Commercialfarmer- Don't falsify supporting evidence? If I have, then almost anyone who has ever quoted just one passage of the Bible or any historical text for their own agenda or devices has done the same. Every pastor, priest, rabbi, holy man of the koran, and all their people.  As for your question of inherent evil, I don't know. It's certainly a detestable act. But if the person who carried it out was not of an understanding of his actions on a cogent and self-aware level, then I don't think I could call it immoral and wicked deed. 

Hey now I have a question that tries to knit evolution and Creationism together.  What if people did come from apes? And what if, when the first Homo sapiens sapiens came along, God bestowed upon them self-awareness and compassion? Kind of like granting them a soul once science got it right. I don't believe it, but to me it's not any more outlandish than just appearing here one day from above.

 

[J2F]

Any body else find fault in the way to protect our kids and our families is to have strict gun control here (no data supports that) and mind you people who want gun control also wants to open our borders for every criminal and terrorist to come on in. (ask native Americans how that worked out).

 

[comercialfarmer]

Commercialfarmer- Don't falsify supporting evidence? If I have, then almost anyone who has ever quoted just one passage of the Bible or any historical text for their own agenda or devices has done the same. Every pastor, priest, rabbi, holy man of the koran, and all their people.  As for your question of inherent evil, I don't know. It's certainly a detestable act. But if the person who carried it out was not of an understanding of his actions on a cogent and self-aware level, then I don't think I could call it immoral and wicked deed. 

Not asking anything about the cognitive ability of the individual.  Is the act, an evil act? 

 

[shortyjock89]

If you take all context away, no. Cognitive ability has to factor in. If there was a seriously mentally handicapped person, or even a monkey,  that pushed the button to shoot of a nuclear warhead directed at a city, is that evil?  To say that someone has done evil is to say that they know their actions are with consequence and they continue with them.  As far as good vs. evil goes, it can be a matter of perspective from a philosophical standpoint, which you well know.  A lot of people would say there is no good, or there is no evil, there only is.